Do instructors not like to sell BP/W?

[cool_hardware52]

If AL will have its own BP/w product line, then it might find its way into more shops and become more readily accessible to divers who otherwise wouldn't know. I haven't seen this device or its specs, so I don't know anything about how it'll fare but I see it as a good thing that a name brand (though, I consider DSS name brand, too) BP/w will finally make its way into nearly every dive shop (or stand a fighting chance of it).

It's very difficult for the major brands to successfully market simplicity.

The marketing department gets involved and the product gets "gizmo-ed"

Every year the pressure to have new features, models, (bold new graphics!!) inevitably results in goods that bear only a passing resemblance of the simple original that inspired them.

The drivers for this are many. Product managers need to justify their job, and adding to the feature list is a proven way to add to margins. Just look at what's happened to the original horse collar or "Stab Jacket" Now you can buy a $900 tech ready dring encrusted auto adjusting elevator lever powered BC.

Pre purchase perception trumps vs post purchase utility.

IMO genuine simplicity will remain a niche area.

Tobin

 

[Web Monkey]

This is quite true, but relative sales numbers are not a measure of merit.

Honestly, for single tank diving, I don't see where either has any exceptional amount "merit" more than the other. They both have a bag that can hold air, a place to strap a tank, and pockets and/or d-rings to keep stuff from floating away.

Terry

 

[cool_hardware52]

Honestly, for single tank diving, I don't see where either has any exceptional amount "merit" more than the other. They both have a bag that can hold air, a place to strap a tank, and pockets and/or d-rings to keep stuff from floating away.

Terry

You may not see any advantage, but that's not what I commented on.

Critics or supporters of any product or approach that rely on relative sales numbers are using a lazy mans argument to prop up their position.

The examples of "popular mediocrity" abound today.

Tobin

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

This whole subject is such a dead horse to me.
I've given up on dive shops and the instructors that work for them as far as them seeing the light with the future of dive systems like the BP/W.
The whole market is so political and money driven, not common sense driven and what works best. I have personally never seen anybody say they were disatisfied with a BP/W set up , but I have seen many dump their poodle jackets for a BP/W and a more minimalistic approach.
Sales people at LDS's stand there and tell me nobody dives BP/W and there is no market for them, while I stand there thinking "You are so blind to what's really going on. Step out of your bubble and,go see what people are using, or hop onto any dive forum and read the BC section!".
It's kind of like when our troops were rushing into Bagdad during operation desert storm and the local Iraqi news was reporting "There are no American troops
invading, it's all a lie". Meanwhile behind the reporter at the airport you could see American tanks rolling in.
To me It's something like that.

 

[The Kraken]

I, personally, know of an instructor who worked for various shops which carried different brands of gear. Each time he moved from one LDS/Mfgr to another, the previous stuff which was, at the time he sold it, the greatest thing since sliced bread, automatically became dive gear that would kill you if you bought it.

Just the way it is . . .

the K

 

[Web Monkey]

You may not see any advantage, but that's not what I commented on.

Critics or supporters of any product or approach that rely on relative sales numbers are using a lazy mans argument to prop up their position.

The examples of "popular mediocrity" abound today.

Making the "popular choice" when making a purchase is usually safe. This is in part, because it's been validated thousands or millions of times by different people. The "popular choice" may not yield the highest possible level of "goodness" but will almost never result in a really bad choice either.

McDonalds doesn't make the world's best hamburger, but they do make a burger that generally tastes OK and almost never causes food poisioning.

Purchasing a Toyota means that you didn't get a Mercedes, but it also means you didn't get a Yugo.

Terry

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I, personally, know of an instructor who worked for various shops which carried different brands of gear. Each time he moved from one LDS/Mfgr to another, the previous stuff which was, at the time he sold it, the greatest thing since sliced bread, automatically became dive gear that would kill you if you bought it.

Just the way it is . . .

the K

Well, all I can say is thank god for the internet. At least those who seek out the information have an avenue to alternative gear and information.
Years ago LDS's ruled, now they are left in the dust and don't even know it.

 

[leabre]

Most dive shops don't deal with tec diving therefore don't carry tec brands. I AM NOT saying a bp/w is tec I'm just saying the companies that make them are and that is prob. why most dive shops don't carry them. I don't dive a bp/w system but I do use a wing style bc and it dives like a bp/w setup. I don't like jacket style bc's and haven't used one since OW training. But on the other hand I feel as long as it isn't a safety issue use what you are comfortable with. Safe diving.

AquaLung is coming out with a BP/w. Hopefully that will make it more prevailant in rec shops. I agree, shops likely would carry it if the mainstream rec vendors provided it. Now that AL is, we'll see how it goes. I haven't see it yet so I don't know if it's a traditional BP/w (a la DSS) or something psuedo.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

AquaLung is coming out with a BP/w. Hopefully that will make it more prevailant in rec shops. I agree, shops likely would carry it if the mainstream rec vendors provided it. Now that AL is, we'll see how it goes. I haven't see it yet so I don't know if it's a traditional BP/w (a la DSS) or something psuedo.

@leabre: I could be wrong about this, but the "new BP/W sample" from Aqualung that your course director friend was talking about is probably just the Apeks WTX series BC...which has been out for at least a year or two. There's nothing new about it at all. The product line consists of a SS BP, a "deluxe" one-piece webbed harness, a TransPac-like soft harness, and a smattering of wings. You can check out photos and specs of the Apeks BC line on the Aqualung website. Hope this info helps...

 

[Colliam7]

My girlfriend and I just completed our OW certification and were considering our options on BC equipment. We both thought the BCD's we used during the course were too much equipment and looking for something simpler.

Good for you. Simplify early and often.

My girlfriend wants the Transpac or the QPac by OMS. Either way both our choices seem unconventional when we tell our LDS what we want in equipment.

Those choices may be a bit 'unconventional' by some standards, although I suspect the degree of 'unconventionality' is possibly also a reflection of the particular area, and the specific shop. If your LDS is not a dealer for DR, or OMS, it isn't all that surprising. And, even if they are, they may carry only certain items in each brand line. I must confess that I am not a particular fan of the IQ Pack as a BC for someone who is looking for 'simple'. So, I might also seem reluctant to endorse it for someone who asked about it. The same goes for the TransPac, even though I own one that I use for sidemount - too much material, not very adjustable. But those are personal preferences. If your girlfriend is looking for 'simple' she can do better. The first time I put my then 15 yo daughter in a simple SS BP with a one piece harness, she didn't like it. (The first time she tried calamari, she didn't like that, either.) The second time was OK. The third time she became a convert. (And, calamari is now her favorite appetizer.) Just because more jackets are sold than BPs is not necessarily an indication of preference. And, I am not saying there is anything wrong with a jacket, as I use one for pool and OW checkouts, because that is what we have in our pool and rental inventory and I gear up like the students.

I just don't understand why these instructors want us in a jacket style BCD so bad.

I don't think they actively want you in a jacket BCD, as much as they are probably unfamiliar with a BP/W themselves, are therefore hesitant to recommend them, and may work in a shop environment where BPs and wings are not regularly stocked. While there may be a commercial motive as some suggest, I think the more likely reason is simply lack of familiarity. I work in a shop where the owner is a very active technical diving instructor, where six of the instructor staff are 'tec certified', and where doubles rigs, backplates, TransPlates, TransPacs, etc, are on display. But we have at least as many staff, in fact more, who are not 'tec certified' and who have never used a BP/W. One of my instructor colleagues, who went through IDC and IE with me and is a superb instructor and a good friend, dives a Zeagle Zena - great BC for female divers I am told. We recently had a female DM candidate who wanted to update her gear and I suggested she consider a BP/W. My instructor colleague advised her against that, and recommended the Zena, which the DMC ultimately purchased. I don't think that was a bad choice at all, but it illustrates a situation where an instructor, who had never used a BP. advised against it (or, more accurately, advised in favor of something else) because THAT (BP) WAS SOMETHING SHE WAS NOT FAMILIAR WITH.