Do I really need training for doubles?

[KevinNM]

So my question is: do I really need some kind of training first? I'd love to take GUE's doubles primer, but it's never offered.

Being able to fully use the redundancy offered by doubles pretty much requires training. Turning off all your valves at the same time is not that hard to do by mistake.

IIRC, any GUE instructor can teach all the primers. Just contact one and see if they can set it up.

 

[PfcAJ]

Formal training probably not, but remember that if you don't manage that isolator properly it'll cook your goose.

To set up a GUE course you contact the instructor. That's the move for pretty much all of them.

 

[barth]

I don't know anybody who did the doubles primer. I did my first dive with doubles with a tech diver. Before the dive started I had to change the bands, they were to low. It wouldn't be easy to to a valvedrill when height of the bands is wrong.

I think if you want to learn a valvedrill it would be nice if somebody who is trained for doubles can show you a good valvedrill.

An instructor would be even better than just a diver who is trained for doubles. Offcourse you can learn it by yourself. But it would be better if somebody can tell you what you can improve.

 

[Diver0001]

For rec diving, I dive a single tank with a BP/W. For cave (and occasionally solo rec) diving, I dive sidemount.

I've never strapped on doubles. It's a gap in my equipment and skill set that I want to eliminate. I'd like to get a pair of LP50s and another set of regs, and use them for solo rec diving, where sidemounted AL80s are overkill. LP50s also be nice to have for deeper rec dives in Lake Michigan, and for shallower rec dives where I'm instabuddied and effectively solo, if I ever feel like diving cold again.

So my question is: do I really need some kind of training first? I'd love to take GUE's doubles primer, but it's never offered. I looked into taking ITT, but the instructor thought it would be a waste. I don't really want to take AN/DP just for this purpose, since I'm not (yet) really sufficiently interested in tech diving. Can I just practice in the pool a bit, teach myself to do a valve drill, and otherwise dive within my existing limits?

I think Andy is right in that if you're just interested in a primer then a lot of instructors will go for a day of "mentoring". Given your background in cave diving and side-mount, this might be all you need.

That said, if you're really going to buy the gear then I would advise you to consider an introductory level tec course like the PADI tec 40 or something similar from another agency. All of the usual suspects will have a course that shows you the basics without going for the full monty. GUE isn't the only one.

What you learn in such a course will be good information for any kind of diving and it's not wasted time if you decide to do more in the future. The point is that there are a few "best practices" to diving in doubles that you'll learn quicker if someone shows you. If you're going to invest in the gear then invest in the training to get the most out of it. There's a good chance, btw, that if you buy the gear new you can negotiate a beginners level specialty into the price so you basically get the training included in the purchase.

R..

 

[divebutt]

Short answer: yes

Long answer: depends on the training and what you want to do. Doubles are great and they allow you to enjoy longer dives and see more, plus add redundancy. Here's the thing though - there's more stuff that can go wrong. Depending on the diving you do, I wouldn't necessarily go for a tech course, but doing some dives with an instructor or experience doubles diver is very useful. Learning to do shutdowns on your own can be interesting (read, turn both regs off by mistake at depth). That all being said, doubles can get you into trouble. More air means deeper, longer and further from your entry. Getting some formal tech training isn't a bad idea. Intro to Tech, Advanced Nitrox.... easy courses that teach a lot.

Just my 2 cents as a tech instructor.

 

[USdiver1]

Using doubles are actually easier than a single in many respects, for example, much better trim and balance than you get with a single, and if you are already a bp/w diver, it's an easy step up to mounting banded doubles on a solid manifold to your bp/w (may need to upgrade total lift capacity of wing, may not, but check). Practice a time or two in the pool, and then buddy up with another diver using doubles. If you are already a competent, Great Lakes diver, switching to doubles will be a walk in the park.

 

[Diver0001]

Using doubles are actually easier than a single in many respects, for example, much better trim and balance than you get with a single, and if you are already a bp/w diver, it's an easy step up to mounting banded doubles on a solid manifold to your bp/w (may need to upgrade total lift capacity of wing, may not, but check). Practice a time or two in the pool, and then buddy up with another diver using doubles. If you are already a competent, Great Lakes diver, switching to doubles will be a walk in the park.

Well....

Ok. here's the thing. I think if you know how to trim yourself with a high level of proficiency that a single or double tank on your back makes absolutely no difference at all to the *ability* to get trimmed out.

Personally I think I could literally slap on any old gear and use old milk jugs for a BCD and I'd look and feel (not to toot my own horn, but this is true) perfectly fine.

I frequently dive in three configurations:

- a REC set using a jacket, a single 10l and a 3mm wetsuit (I use this in the pool every week)
- a REC set using a jacket, a single 10l or 15l tank and a drysuit (I use this while training OW divers)
- a TEC set using a double 12, BWP, usually carrying an AL85 (I guess) stage. (I use this for the majority of my dives)

I dive most of the time in the 1st and the last config and honest to God I could hang like I were a statue suspended from an invisible string on any of them. Attached is a picture of me diving with a dolphin using a jacket, a 7/5 wetsuit and an AL80. I hadn't dived with that config for years before that picture was taken. See any problems there?

I'm not trying to insult anyone or toot my own horn. What I'm trying to do--as I often do when this comes up--is to break down the persistent paradigm that we're so fond of on the internet that the basket-and-blimp configuration is the solution to all your trimming problems.

It's not. Learning how to trim is the solution to all your trimming problems.

That said, I will add one thing to this. In terms of mobility, comfort and overal familiarity, I personally prefer the 2x12 to the single 15. I feel exactly the same in both of them but I don't really like my jacket as much as I like my BPW and I feel no difference at all to how it dives even though I have a lot more air on my back with the 2x12.

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[The Laconic]

IIf you were just going to dive as independent doubles, or with no isolation, then you've probably got most of the knowledge already... from diving sidemount and/or BP&W single tank. But you may still appreciate some set-up/configuration expertise to get things started right.

Diving as independent doubles never occurred to me. It's an interesting option. Still, yeah, I'd appreciate some expertise in general.

 

[The Laconic]

If you have a GUE instructor near you , just contact them to arrange a doubles primer.

Not near me. But I'm in Mexico often enough, I guess I should just ask Fred Devos.

 

[The Laconic]

UTD offers a "Doubles mini" course. It's a one day pool session and theory as an introduction to doubles.

Probably the equivalent of GUE doubles primer. Thanks, this is another option that hadn't occurred to me.