I would choose to add the analog SPG. You seem entirely opposed to the concept of a hose for some reason, however, so in a purely recreational sense, the second choice is indeed viable.Eskasi:
Do I need a backup computer?
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Eskasi
Contributor
CompuDude.....I am not opposed to the concept of having the hose, just kinda miffed about paying for hoseless and then considering a hose backup...however, I entirely respect the experince and advice of the board. I always take all the info I see here and read everything from a conservative standpoint.
I will definetely buy the analog SPG....but probably leave it in my bag till I regret not having it on that one dive I wish i did.
Thanks for the advice guys......I definetely learned a lot more and feel more comfortable with the decision I am making!
I will definetely buy the analog SPG....but probably leave it in my bag till I regret not having it on that one dive I wish i did.
Thanks for the advice guys......I definetely learned a lot more and feel more comfortable with the decision I am making!
I'm sure you'll be fine, and hopefully you'll never need that SPG.Eskasi:
You would still benefit from the wireless AI, however, even if you added an SPG. The way I see it, there are four main advantages to wireless AI:
1) Better information on consumption rates goes into your computer for purposes of calculating RBT. (unchanged by adding an SPG)
2) Better/easier logging of critical dive info, and automatic calculation of SAC rates, etc. (unchanged by adding an SPG)
3) All the information you need is right there on your wrist. (unchanged by adding an SPG)
4) You use one less hose. (A minor convenience, IMO, that is changed by an SPG to some extent, since a rarely consulted, bare SPG is a lot less intrusive than a full AI console you have to pull out all the time.)
serambin
Guest
I use an Aeris Epic with AI on my wrist. I also have an SPG in a console with depth gauge and a Genesis React Pro. The console is attached to a retractable hook and doesn't interfere with anything. Since the React Pro and the Epic are both using the same Pelagic DSAT algorythm, the two agree almost completely.
Dive trips are expensive. Not only the cost of the trip is involved, but if you're self employed, the loss of revenue while your gone. I plan my vacations around diving and to miss dives over a gear failure is just not acceptable. An SPG and a hockey puck lets me fell a lot safer about any dive trip.
Stan
Dive trips are expensive. Not only the cost of the trip is involved, but if you're self employed, the loss of revenue while your gone. I plan my vacations around diving and to miss dives over a gear failure is just not acceptable. An SPG and a hockey puck lets me fell a lot safer about any dive trip.
Stan
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The D9 has tempted me in order to get rid of a hose. But the idea of not having tank pressure because of transmission failure is enough for me not to get the D9. Having a transmitter + a backup hosed SPG doesn't appeal to me that much since it's essentially identical to a hosed computer (at least in # of hoses).
I always dive with two computers using the exact same algorithm: Cobra and Stinger. Reason is more historic: got a Spyder (later upgraded to Stinger) a while ago, then got the Cobra much later when I bought my BCD and regs.
That solution has PROs:
- same algorithm => no problem with conflicting information.
- if Cobra fails during a trip, I don't have to cancel the trip, as long as I can rent an SPG
- if the Stinger fails during a dive, I don't have to cancel the dive
...and CONs:
- if the Cobra fails during a dive, I need to cancel the dive.
As usual in this forum, regarding equipment: there's no ideal/perfect solution that works for everyone, you just want to find the one that works for you.
I always dive with two computers using the exact same algorithm: Cobra and Stinger. Reason is more historic: got a Spyder (later upgraded to Stinger) a while ago, then got the Cobra much later when I bought my BCD and regs.
That solution has PROs:
- same algorithm => no problem with conflicting information.
- if Cobra fails during a trip, I don't have to cancel the trip, as long as I can rent an SPG
- if the Stinger fails during a dive, I don't have to cancel the dive
...and CONs:
- if the Cobra fails during a dive, I need to cancel the dive.
As usual in this forum, regarding equipment: there's no ideal/perfect solution that works for everyone, you just want to find the one that works for you.
Lucy's Diver
Contributor
My wife and I both have ProPlus IIs.
I was issued a Stinger through work.
My recreational dives with my wife tend to be remote locations where we cannot buy replacement parts.
I dive the stinger and PPII together and carry an analog SPG in my spare parts kit. If either PPII fails, I'll plug the SPG into my high pressure port and dive with the Stinger as my computer. I'd have her wait a good 16 hours to clean before diving again if her PPII failed and I had to give her mine. I know the e-logs would be all wrong at that point, but I can live with that, I keep a log on paper. If my PPII failed I'd be good to go after the SPG swap, which is about a 2 minute job.
We have had an O ring on a PPII quick disconnect fail and at that time I did not have a replacement O ring or the knowledge to replace it (I do now).
I haven't had a problem with the PPII and the Stinger being overly inconsistent with each other on the nitrogen loading data, through I have noticed the Stinger is more conservative on ascent rates and safety stops.
So to answer your question: I think if you have a gas integrated computer of any kind it might be a good idea to dive a non integrated computer at the same time as a backup and carry a simple SPG in your spare parts kit. If your primary computer fails, you can just swap in the SPG on a surface interval and you're good to go with the backup. Downside is that you have to obey the more conservative of the two computers, but that's not such a bad thing.
I was issued a Stinger through work.
My recreational dives with my wife tend to be remote locations where we cannot buy replacement parts.
I dive the stinger and PPII together and carry an analog SPG in my spare parts kit. If either PPII fails, I'll plug the SPG into my high pressure port and dive with the Stinger as my computer. I'd have her wait a good 16 hours to clean before diving again if her PPII failed and I had to give her mine. I know the e-logs would be all wrong at that point, but I can live with that, I keep a log on paper. If my PPII failed I'd be good to go after the SPG swap, which is about a 2 minute job.
We have had an O ring on a PPII quick disconnect fail and at that time I did not have a replacement O ring or the knowledge to replace it (I do now).
I haven't had a problem with the PPII and the Stinger being overly inconsistent with each other on the nitrogen loading data, through I have noticed the Stinger is more conservative on ascent rates and safety stops.
So to answer your question: I think if you have a gas integrated computer of any kind it might be a good idea to dive a non integrated computer at the same time as a backup and carry a simple SPG in your spare parts kit. If your primary computer fails, you can just swap in the SPG on a surface interval and you're good to go with the backup. Downside is that you have to obey the more conservative of the two computers, but that's not such a bad thing.
I have never had to abort a dive so far due to computer failure, but it can happen.
Having a backup computer is for convenience, not for safety. At any point of the dive, you are always OK to go directly to the surface unless you are doing a deco dive, so if the computer dies, just ascend, do a safety stop (depth/time isn't critical) and then surface.
If there is a reason aborting a dive is a lot of headache, maybe you are teaching a class or are a dive guide, then a backup would be necessary.
As for the D9, I have a Vytec, and I'll bet that all those "failures" were for people fairly new to them. (Other than that recall related to the bug in the algorithm. Happens with every manufacturer every few years..) You need to remember to pair the transmitter before the dive, and also if you pair it and then walk away for a while and/or let the computer turn off (to time mode) you will have to pair it again. The latter is probably where most of the problem occurs. The trick is to pair it just before you don your gear, and you will never have a problem unless the battery runs out. I figured this out after a few dives with my Vytec where I had a problem three or four times, and then once I started doing this had zero problems for a couple hundred dives.
As for turning off the pressure, the old version of the transmitter resets the code if the regulator is depressurized. The newer version (that came out before the D9 came out) resets the code only if it is turned back on right away.
FWIW, I've seen many more problems with the Oceanic AI computers, but then again until a few years ago I experienced and saw many more Pelagic (Oceanic, Aeris, etc.) computers fail, AI or not, maybe they've gotten better now, I don't know.
Having a backup computer is for convenience, not for safety. At any point of the dive, you are always OK to go directly to the surface unless you are doing a deco dive, so if the computer dies, just ascend, do a safety stop (depth/time isn't critical) and then surface.
If there is a reason aborting a dive is a lot of headache, maybe you are teaching a class or are a dive guide, then a backup would be necessary.
As for the D9, I have a Vytec, and I'll bet that all those "failures" were for people fairly new to them. (Other than that recall related to the bug in the algorithm. Happens with every manufacturer every few years..) You need to remember to pair the transmitter before the dive, and also if you pair it and then walk away for a while and/or let the computer turn off (to time mode) you will have to pair it again. The latter is probably where most of the problem occurs. The trick is to pair it just before you don your gear, and you will never have a problem unless the battery runs out. I figured this out after a few dives with my Vytec where I had a problem three or four times, and then once I started doing this had zero problems for a couple hundred dives.
As for turning off the pressure, the old version of the transmitter resets the code if the regulator is depressurized. The newer version (that came out before the D9 came out) resets the code only if it is turned back on right away.
FWIW, I've seen many more problems with the Oceanic AI computers, but then again until a few years ago I experienced and saw many more Pelagic (Oceanic, Aeris, etc.) computers fail, AI or not, maybe they've gotten better now, I don't know.
I can't believe you Suunto owners continue to buy Suunto wireless AI with this pairing nonsense.
Uwatec. Pair it once. When you buy it. Done.
Every dive? Walk away, and do it again? Bah.
Uwatec. Pair it once. When you buy it. Done.
Every dive? Walk away, and do it again? Bah.
CompuDude:
Yes, in terms of usability, it's definitely inferior. I'm sure that there was a reason they did it this way, but it definitely could have been implemented better.
That said, once you get used to it it's not as big a deal as it may seem to you.
All you have to do is press two buttons on the computer and hold it next to the transmitter for a couple seconds.
edit: oops. make that "all you have to do is turn it on and hold it next to...", no pressing buttons, etc.
It's been a while since I used the air integration in my Vytec.
fppf
Contributor
We do not have any problems with our Oceanic Atom's.
It has worked on every dive, even in training classes when turning your tank off, purge, then back on. Works great.
It has worked on every dive, even in training classes when turning your tank off, purge, then back on. Works great.
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