Diving Without BCD

[boat sju]

I see.

Remember those Scubapro BC's made in the early 80's that had the dumpable shot?

 

[JamesBon92007]

I see.

Remember those Scubapro BC's made in the early 80's that had the dumpable shot?

No, but that's probably why they came up with soft weights--at least you might be able to go back down and pick it up

 

[John C. Ratliff]

I see.

Remember those Scubapro BC's made in the early 80's that had the dumpable shot?

I don't think that was Scubapro, but rather SeaPro with their AtPak (Attitude Control Pack). The AtPak had a lead shot filled backpack. I think Scubapro had two weight cylinders filed with shot of some sort for their BCD.

I never owned or used an AtPak, but had a friend who did. He liked it. But I also know of one fatality involving a diver with an AtPak who exited a rowboat in Clear Lake, Oregon with his air not turned on. He experienced an unexpectedly fast descent, apparently to 90 feet, where he drowned without releasing the lead shot (which may have been stuck together, and therefore not releasable).

SeaRat

 

[John C. Ratliff]

If some of you used to dive the old fashioned way i some questions about the technique ... in Italy they don’t teach any more the old techniques. As far as I know, people had no BCD jacket and so they had the use very little almost no weight in the belt. 3 kg being the very maximum for a man of average built. But normally much less 1 or 2 kg or no weights at all. Back then there were no neoprene suits. In order to reach the depth necessary to start the dive there was a specific movement. In Italian it’s called ‘capovolta’ more or less ‘backflip’. So the dive didn’t start in a vertical position like now. The respiration mostly wasn’t used to keep positive, it was just based on a proper movement underwater. Anyway people who used to dive where much more trained than now if not navy officers or like that. Are there people who still teach the old diving techniques in the us? Do you have any links or info on this?

There are some of us who still practice the old diving techniques, now called "Vintage diving," without BCDs. And, some of us even qualify by age as "Vintage." There are no formal teaching or instruction to my knowledge in the USA concerning Vintage diving. But those of us practicing Vintage diving exchange ideas about it.

Diving, as practiced in warm water areas, actually have little use for a BCD, as even the thin suits used today don't compress much and therefore don't need to have buoyancy compensation. The amount of weight needed was therefore only that to offset the natural buoyancy in salt water of the diver's body. I find I am more buoyant now at 72+ years old than when in my twenties. But this buoyancy doesn't change with depth.

We used a "surface dive," which started in a horizontal position, pushed our arms straight down, followed by our upper body going down head-first, and our legs thrown up into the air to drive our body down to 2-3 meters without effort. Our steel 72 cubic foot tanks were close to neutral buoyancy when empty, and only slightly negative at the start of a dive, even with doubles.

SeaRat

 

[JamesBon92007]

I find I am more buoyant now at 72+ years old than when in my twenties.

We used a "surface dive," which started in a horizontal position, pushed our arms straight down, followed by our upper body going down head-first, and our legs thrown up into the air to drive our body down to 2-3 meters without effort. Our steel 72 cubic foot tanks were close to neutral buoyancy when empty, and only slightly negative at the start of a dive, even with doubles.
SeaRat

My buoyancy changed right around age 60. Now I can't even stay down in a swimming pool with no wetsuit.

I was somewhat dismayed the first time I wore a BC and everyone from the dive boat held up their inflator hose, let the air out, and began to sink. That was around 2011. Lately I've been diving with a 2.5mm suit in mostly warm water so I haven't really noticed any difference yet, but I just got a Super-Stretch 5mm jumpsuit so I'm expecting I might need a small wing at the beginning of the dive. I still have my old 1/4" farmer john but it started shrinking (mainly around the waist area) right about the time I became more buoyant. I confiscated my ex-wife's suit so I might use it to add some panels so I can wear my old suit once again and get back to normal diving. I still have about 1/2 dozen steel 72s so I should be good to go, but I used to dive with no BC even with my AL 80s. I just needed to add a little more weight to my belt.

I'd heard some bad things about the At-Pak back in the day but didn't hear anything specific, not that I remember anyway. But, of course, I never had any use for a BC so I didn't pay much attention.

Just for the record, my plan to use lead shot is for trim and it would not be dump-able (was that in this thread?) I generally use 18 pounds so I'm probably going to add 8 pounds to my plastic backpack and have 10 pounds of ditch-able weight.

 

[Sbiriguda]

We used a "surface dive," which started in a horizontal position, pushed our arms straight down, followed by our upper body going down head-first, and our legs thrown up into the air to drive our body down to 2-3 meters without effort. Our steel 72 cubic foot tanks were close to neutral buoyancy when empty, and only slightly negative at the start of a dive, even with doubles.
SeaRat

The movement I described above is based on a similar concept, and it is perhaps slightly more efficient. The "capovolta" or "back flip" brings the diver's legs up in the air, then the divers exploit their own weight and the additional force provided by this kind of movement. A diver can easily reach the depth of -6 or -7 meters almost effortless. Instructors here are still taught this kind of movement during training and they can do this if requested, but they use it seldom. I think it is still used in freediving and spearfishing, there are several versions of this movement

 

[Bob DBF]

If one can find a copy of The New Science of Skin and SCUBA Diving, or the prior edition without New in the title, before BCs were widely used. It was the premier training manual at the time and covered diving without a BC. The newer editions, post BC, may not have the info.

This was the book I used, @Sam Miller III probably has a list of other titles, as well as copies in his library.

Any learn to dive from the '50's, '60's, and into the early '70's may have some info for you, the earlier the better. Unfortunately, a lot of instruction was on cheap pamphlets and in "instructors" heads, and are no longer as available.



Bob

 

[boat sju]

I think Scubapro had two weight cylinders filed with shot of some sort for their BCD.

I'm guessing this is what I was thinking of. I remember some type of compartment with a trap door on the bottom. You pulled a pin to release the shot. But, it was a long time ago so hard to say.

 

[Sbiriguda]

If one can find a copy of The New Science of Skin and SCUBA Diving, or the prior edition without New in the title, before BCs were widely used. It was the premier training manual at the time and covered diving without a BC. The newer editions, post BC, may not have the info.

The New Science of Skin and Scuba Diving. Paperback, Published 1970. | eBay
I think this is the one... In the US it should be quite easy to get one, here you have to pay much more for the shipping costs but perhaps there is still a way

 

[Bob DBF]

The New Science of Skin and Scuba Diving. Paperback, Published 1970. | eBay
I think this is the one... In the US it should be quite easy to get one, here you have to pay much more for the shipping costs but perhaps there is still a way

And I couldn't guarantee that edition would help as mine is an older edition. It sounds like a lot of money if you don't get what you want. I'm busy at the moment, but when I get some time I'll see if I can scan and email some pages.



Bob