Diving with seizure disorder

[Ber Rabbit]

You asked for experiences and I'll share something I recently experienced.

A couple of years ago I trained a diver I'll call "Bill", he was also a skydiver and that sport ended up taking preference over the scuba. About a month ago I got a phone call from Bill's brother letting me know when the memorial service was going to be. I had no clue what he was talking about so he was the one who had the "priviledge" of telling me Bill had been killed in a skydiving accident. It had been all over the news but I don't see much local news so I missed it. His brother said he was calling everyone in Bill's cell phone and had assumed I was one of his sky diving buddies. I told him I had been Bill's scuba instructor and he said he was a diver and was the one who encouraged Bill to get certified although they had never gotten a chance to dive together.

Bill had over 500 jumps and was learning to "swoop" (high speed landing) when something went wrong; his mom told me he was attempting to abort the landing but hit the ground on his side at 40mph the same time his chute did. His brother told me Bill really wasn't in bad shape from the landing meaning he lived a couple of days but was brain dead and he was able to donate lots of body parts to make other's lives better. Bill was only 29.

I went to the memorial service, they had a nice slide show, a lot of pictures and a table with a bunch of his skydiving gear on it. I can tell you this, going to that memorial service was hard and if that had been scuba gear on the table I would have been emotionally distraught; I cannot imagine what his sky diving instructor was going through. His mother told me she almost wished he had pursued the scuba instead of the skydiving.

Having one of my students die was traumatic for me, I imagine the same could be said for the instructor who certified you. "There's nothing down there worth dying for" and while you might or might not have a seizure on a dive, diving with a seizure disorder increases your chance of "dying for nothing". Please don't become a topic in the accidents forum.
Ber

 

[Tagerisatroll]

Hmm well I guese I was endorsind diving with a siezure condition, let me clarify. The Genral rule of thumb your going to drown if you have a siezure while diving.

The only reason I made my post is because no-one had mentioned a fullface mask, I think my post was pretty clear that you should not dive if you are prone to siezures but if your going to risk it, you should take measures to not asperate your regulator while having a seizure. Such as a properly fitted full face mask, this needs to be properly fitted. Even with this there is no garnentee you will have a open airway when you come out of your seizure you might vomit and choke on your own puke.

Anyway I didn't see my post as an incourgment to dive with a seizure condition just illistrating some of the hazards, and one of the ways to minimize one of them.

Now let me make myself clear SIEZURE CONDITIONs and DIVING don't mix don't do it.

But if you still want to dive knowing the risks, I won't refuse to be your buddy.

Wade

 

[wreckchick]

Let me speak from a completely different perspective, from the dive op/instructor/divemaster point of view....

I wouldn't certify you, buddy with you, or let you on my boat. If you lied to me and came on my boat anyway and anything happened while we were at sea... I might just kill myself for the privilege of following you into the afterlife and kicking your butt.

How dare you even consider putting your family, me, my business, my friends, your friends, my family, your instructor, the other people on the boat and my crew through something as horrible as your death because you selfishly can't get over the fact that you might just be relegated to snorkeling unless you can get this seizure disorder under control.

Harsh? Sure. Undeserved? Not in my opinion.

Rachel

 

[Damselfish]

Let me speak from a completely different perspective, from the dive op/instructor/divemaster point of view....

I wouldn't certify you, buddy with you, or let you on my boat. If you lied to me and came on my boat anyway and anything happened while we were at sea... I might just kill myself for the privilege of following you into the afterlife and kicking your butt.

How dare you even consider putting your family, me, my business, my friends, your friends, my family, your instructor, the other people on the boat and my crew through something as horrible as your death because you selfishly can't get over the fact that you might just be relegated to snorkeling unless you can get this seizure disorder under control.

Harsh? Sure. Undeserved? Not in my opinion.

Rachel

Undeserved, yes - maybe lighten up on the OP? They are a new diver and have a problem. Read the first post, they have a suspicion they shouldn't dive but don't know for sure, are probably holding out hope maybe it is ok because they're bummed at the thought of not, and simply asked for advice. They haven't posted again in this thread arguing against all the reasons given that they should dive, haven't suggested they would lie, or whatever. Other people may have, but they didn't.

 

[wreckchick]

The OP was certified after having her first seizure. Do you think she came clean and told her instructor about that?

A little bit of research would have pointed directly to the contraindication of seizures and diving. DocV, among others, posted links that would have spelled it out pretty clearly before posting here.

In addition to that, there have been posters in this thread that have blatently said they would continue diving and/or have given the OP ways to continue diving even though it's clearly a bad idea.

My post is directed at the OP and anyone else who thinks that circumventing those "recommendations" is a feasible option. If you, or anyone else, feels up for taking on the risk, do what you think is right. What I posted is my opinion, no one else's nor do I speak for anyone but myself.

R

 

[DandyDon]

I wouldn't suggest snorkeling or swimming with the disorder.

 

[Damselfish]

The OP was certified after having her first seizure. Do you think she came clean and told her instructor about that?

I realize the timing, but I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt. I bet some people whiz through the medical form without really reading it carefully. (Not that that is good.) Or denial can be a strong force - maybe she was hoping the first seizure was a fluke, or she figured she was taking meds and it was ok, or she didn't really think about the possible consequences. Someone uncertified or new will not think of many points that are obvious to you.

A little bit of research would have pointed directly to the contraindication of seizures and diving. DocV, among others, posted links that would have spelled it out pretty clearly before posting here.

Well, quite possibly she didn't do that research. (Not that that is good either.) Or isn't good at it (some people aren't.) The second seizure on the meds obviously inspired her to ask here at least, which is research of a sort.

In addition to that, there have been posters in this thread that have blatently said they would continue diving and/or have given the OP ways to continue diving even though it's clearly a bad idea.

yes, but that's not the OPs fault

My post is directed at the OP and anyone else who thinks that circumventing those "recommendations" is a feasible option. If you, or anyone else, feels up for taking on the risk, do what you think is right. What I posted is my opinion, no one else's nor do I speak for anyone but myself.

I'm entitled to my opinion too, and I still think this was hard on a person who asked a question. The same points could be conveyed without attacking, which is just likely to make someone go away. Now if she had come back and said something to indicate she was blowing off the advice to stop - like asking which is the best full face mask - well that's another matter. The "how dare you be so selfish" rant just seems a bit much when I suspect all those ramifications hadn't even occured to her. She just might be innocent of being horrible and selfish...

 

[DandyDon]

I'm entitled to my opinion too, and I still think this was hard on a person who asked a question. The same points could be conveyed without attacking, which is just likely to make someone go away. Now if she had come back and said something to indicate she was blowing off the advice to stop - like asking which is the best full face mask - well that's another matter. The "how dare you be so selfish" rant just seems a bit much when I suspect all those ramifications hadn't even occured to her. She just might be innocent of being horrible and selfish...

Some folks just express themselves differently than others. I thought that Biscuit7's remarks may have been a little strong, but she is a very strong person I know from her posts and what I've heard of her business. Too, her post was late in the thread; if she'd post that as the first response, then maybe it'd been a little much. But after others have supported the OP's desire to dive, I thought it was a humorous way of making it clear: "No way, hell no."

I can further appreciate the feelings that Biscuit7 may have as a scuba operator in Florida's Keys. I don't know if she has ever had a diver die while diving from the same boat, but I'm sure she knows the effect that this can have on a skipper from her friends up the Overseas Hiway.

I'm pretty stoic about such things. I thought that I did see a diver from our boat carried off dead by another boat once just up the road from her. I didn't know the diver, tho, and I was going to go back out on the same boat for afternoon dives - if it went. Fortunately we got word that the injured diver was okay and arguing with nurses.

On the other hand, I have been as close as on the same group trip to Cozumel when a diver I knew had seizures on the dock after diving. My mind raced: "What if he'd had them while diving? What if he'd been off my boat?" I knew him from another trip and knew better than to buddy with him, but still - that was closer. Went on to learn that he'd lied about this on his training medical, and then - showed up at another group function ready to dive. She groups sponsor let him; I left the group for good. Some of the posters have offered to dive with the OP, but I suspect that they have never seen a seizure. I have. Imagining one in even 3 feet of water is a very scary thought.

I think I may print out Biscuit7's post as well as save it for reference - for anyone who might try to bluff their way thru a medical problem that severely contradicts diving and dive off the same boat as me. I've got my Rescue card, but not to deal with this sort of challenge - or another body recovery.

 

[Damselfish]

Some folks just express themselves differently than others. I thought that Biscuit7's remarks may have been a little strong, but she is a very strong person I know from her posts and what I've heard of her business. Too, her post was late in the thread; if she'd post that as the first response, then maybe it'd been a little much. But after others have supported the OP's desire to dive, I thought it was a humorous way of making it clear: "No way, hell no."

Kinda misses one of my points, that she seems to be dumping on the OP for things other people said.

Humorous? You've got to be kidding.

ok, time to unsubscribe from this thread and not aggravate myself...

 

[KazooDiver]

As an RN who works on a Neurological floor and have seen many seizures first hand. I will tell you that you should NEVER dive. The seizure medication can have serious side effects and they can be amplified underpressure. Since you can NOT be with out your seizure medication, you have double the problems being underwater. 1)the side effects of the seizure medications, 2)having a seizure underwater. Either can KILL you and there is no need to take that risk.

I