Diving with OC

[acmccown]

Questions for everyone. On a recent charter the guide caught an earful because there was 1 rebreather guy in the mix of a bunch of OC divers. The Captain of the charter was telling her that it was against standards because she was not rated in the rebreather. Now she is hesitant to take out any CC folks because of liability.

She is an instructor (PADI, recreational), but not teaching, just acting as a guide.

Now I am looking up to see if I can put her liability fears to rest or if there is really an issue there.

Thanks for the assist.

 

[Gareth J]

From a UK point of view I can't see a problem, if the rebreather is trained and qualified to use the unit, what interest does the guide have?
Does the guide need to be Nitrox qualified if the divers are using Nitrox, does she need to be ADP qualified if the divets are accelerating the deco?

I think it's a nonsense statement, the guide gives a site briefing, and perhaps buddies the inexperienced. Once the divers have a site briefing, then the divers plan and execute the dive.

But things might be different in the USA!

Gareth

PS - Following the same point, does it mean she can't take DIR divers on a trip because she's not DIR qualified!

 

[acmccown]

Same thing I said, but..... I just want to see if anyone knows better or can point me to a "standard" with PADI or TDI and let me read up on it.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Interesting. I've occasionally seen CCR folks on dive charters (organized by dive shops who had an instructor onboard who were not certified rebreather instructors) who were even solo diving. I don't think there is an issue, but remember, the advise you are getting on this board is free, and you don't always get more than for what you pay.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I'd have asked, what standard is he referring to? Sit down and have him show you afterwards. As I don't think it exists.

 

[Gareth J]

From memory, when I did my PADI DM many years ago, the PADI recommendation was when you see cylinders with funny gas (rich nitrox / O2 / helium), stay well away, give the briefing, let those qualified in this type of diving, plan and execute their dives with the additional knowledge and training that they have.

 

[macado]

Simple answer, no. Absolutely no. The DM is acting as tour guide, not an instructor. Provided the person is already certified and qualified to dive on the unit; They are not part of a class so there should be no issue at all.

I work / crew on a charter boat, we have mixed groups all the time. Although I can't find anything specific in PADI standards referencing this I've never heard of it being an issue. I can't speak for other certification agencies.

The other exceptions I could think of is if the shop / charter boat had their own internal policy (For example: rebreathers not allowed on recreational charters) or their dive insurance policy?

It would be like someone diving doubles or sidemount and then guide saying they can't lead the diver because they are only familiar with single tanks.

 

[abscuba]

I see this issue here in Hawaii from time to time. If you are going to dive a boat on CCR its good to talk to the guy who owns the boat and show him that you know what you are doing. The guide may take you out but if you get into trouble a DM that is not familiar will not be able to respond and help. The standards there are grey and if something goes wrong it is likely things would have to go to court to get sorted out who is liable. Rebreathers are a great tool, but they do bring a higher liability with them and its good to ensure the boat captain is comfortable with you being on one. The shop you chartered through should have set that up to begin with. Being a rebreather diver in Hawaii there are a lot of us out here and we help each other out, get with other RB divers instead of shops and you will have more fun on your unit and will have less issues with guides.

 

[tstormdiver]

I don't see any reason why this should be a problem. I frequently dive in mixed teams, as there are not that many rebreather divers in the area. If I am diving with an OC buddy in an overhead environment (cave), I will ask that they carry an additional bailout bottle for themselves. I have yet to hear of anyone dying of having too much air. In Open water, on non decompression dives, I carry ample bailout gas for both of us to get up & out safely. I also make sure to familiarize the OC buddy with my unit & how to access air from my bailouts, if they need to. I also explain to them how to get me to the surface, should I become incapacitated (if they are rescue trained). I go over the basics of my unit & it's limitations (slow ascents/ descents) before we go on the dive. In fact,... SSI allows me to dive a rebreather (or sidemount), for any non- entry level class (ie. Try Scuba or Open Water Diver), if I so choose. That being said,... common sense must prevail, that I must be able to react quickly to assist any student that may have issues. If I can not do that, then I use OC.

 

[brockbr]

I'd think the issue could be some sort of liability problem since the "guide", acting as an agent of the dive operator, wouldn't necessarily be able to affect a rescue of a diver in unknown gear.