Review Diving the Avelo System

[EdMcNeill09]

Like everything else in recreational scuba, it's going to depend on training time and cost, both for training and rental. I think it's going to be a tiny niche unless and until they can convince someone to let them do DSDs in it and/or get the training time down to a day for certified divers. And then dramatically lower the price or come up with some kind of leasing program for dive shops.

It’s a one day two tank certification preceded by a couple of hours of elearning. Current arrangements with dive shops are leases. DSDs will hopefully happen.

Even then, I'm not sure it will ever work for DSDs outside of the resorts that cater to the very wealthy since you'll have to charge a lot more to cover the equipment cost and a one to one student to instructor ratio. One to one because it will be the only way to safely do this without a full day of training before the dive.

DSDs will probably be 2 to one. Currently PADI is a max of 4 to one which is a lot. DSDs are typically done on a 3-4 hour charter.

I’ll never forget coming back to a dive shop shocked that one of my DSDs couldn’t swim and learning that the ability to swim isn’t a prerequisite! Seriously.

 

[Belzelbub]

I think Dive Shops will be a significant buyer of systems for DSDs when this is possible. I think people who get Avelo Certified will be happy to pay a bit to rent systems for boat and shore dives. But we'll see.

If they allow DSDs, then this may be a path for some. Right now, requiring OW, then Avelo cert seems a bit counter productive to trying to get more people to buy or rent their systems. A rental path may make sense, depending on what the rental will actually cost. Right now seems like renting an Avelo Jet Pack and Hydro Tank would have to be considerably more than renting a standard Scuba kit.

I don't rent gear, but the shop I use most charges the following for a weekend (Pickup Thursday, return Monday morning)
BC: $27
Tank: $18, $27, $28 (Air, Nitrox, Steel Nitrox)

Given the costs involved, I'd imagine rentals would have to be significantly higher to make sense for the business.

Like everything else in recreational scuba, it's going to depend on training time and cost, both for training and rental. I think it's going to be a tiny niche unless and until they can convince someone to let them do DSDs in it and/or get the training time down to a day for certified divers. And then dramatically lower the price or come up with some kind of leasing program for dive shops.

Agreed. Pricing will be the key. If they can keep it reasonably close to current pricing, they may have a shot. If it's significantly more per dive, then it will be tough to gain market share.

I know that I'm not their target market. I dive my own gear primarily off of private boats. The question that Avelo needs to solve is who is their target market, and at what price will that target be willing to choose this over a standard system.

 

[scubadada]

...Right now seems like renting an Avelo Jet Pack and Hydro Tank would have to be considerably more than renting a standard Scuba kit...

I only know how it works at Dive Friends Bonaire, where my wife and I did our Recreational Avelo Diver certification, 2 additional guided dives, and then rented Avelo gear for a day and 3 independent dives. DFB requires the 2 additional guided dives after certification before allowing independent Avelo gear rental.

Avelo
Jetpack
2 batteries
3 Hydrotanks
300 bar DIN regulator set (Scubapro MK25/S620 Ti or S600/S270)

$110/day, computer add $13

Standard
BC $13/d
Regulator $13/d
1 day unlimited tank $38

$64/day, computer add $13

So, we each spent $450 for the RAD, $250 for the additional 2 guided dives, and $110 for rental for a 3 dive day.

When we go back to Bonaire later this year for our 2 week visit, I will likely rent Avelo gear for a couple of days. I will use my own 300 bar DIN reg set and will likely have the Avelo Mode running on my Teric computer ($99 for the unlock code).

 

[Belzelbub]

Avelo
Jetpack
2 batteries
3 Hydrotanks
300 bar DIN regulator set (Scubapro MK25/S620 Ti or S600/S270)

$110/day, computer add $13

Standard
BC $13/d
Regulator $13/d
1 day unlimited tank $38

$64/day, computer add $13

Thanks. That's not bad. Though, this was technically before pricing on the Jetpack was announced, so I wonder if this was set by Avelo with both Avelo and the Op getting a cut. If the pricing remains like that, it may make sense.

 

[jadairiii]

A very small number of posters to this thread have dived the Avelo System. I do not comment on diving backmount doubles, sidemount diving, technical diving, cave diving, rebreathers... I have quite a bit of experience diving backmount singles for no stop and light deco diving. I dive reasonably competently.

I wouldn't comment on mechanical vs. electronic cycling groupsets either .

An experienced diver would not need to dive one to comment on it's utility.

2 Saturday's ago, I went diving, depths ranging from 15-37 feet deep, SS BP (6lbs)/30lb wing, shorty wetsuit and a single Alum 80, 90 min BT. I adjusted my buoyancy once during the dive. Should I decide this weekend to to a bit of a deeper dive, I put my same BP on a set of doubles with a larger wing ($250 for the additional wing). I would see no benefit in spending an additional $4K for a "system" that does the same thing I can do with my singe 80 and has exponentially greater expandability.

I can see the utility for a diver that has horrifying buoyancy control, has no intention of getting better training and ..... has an Amex Black card. Good for them, I'm not judging. One would have to assume that Avelo has done its market research and there is a large enough pool (no pun intended) of divers in that sector. And the great thing, the Avelo is a whole lot smaller than the Dacor Nautilus!

 

[David Haas]

As one person posted recently for a product idea people want to crap all over it sure seems to be getting a lot of reads and discussion!!!! LOL.....

I think the reluctance and negativity comes down to 2 factors.

1) Why would anything such as Avelo be needed?

As some (me included) have posted a world wide majority of people going diving whether 1-2-10 dives / year or 200 / year are puttering around for fun. A very and I mean VERY small group are diving doubles, pushing past 40M / 130', rebreathers, etc. Those who dabble in lazy shallow sport diving may also do such dives whether tech, cave, whatever but certainly don't need an Avelo.

As also discussed diving has certainly not been increasing. Whether you agree having a product assist or almost completely handle buoyancy could stimulate interest and participation........


2) Cost..........

I understand people no matter what your economic level evaluating cost to benefit. What I don't understand is the same folks justifying a $1,400.00 USD or more dive computer to replace a $90 HP hose and SPG.

This boggles my mind!

Same goes for a rebreather which conservatively if you add up training is anywhere from $6,000 up to $15K depending on machine, where you need to go to learn to dive it, etc. Then add in yearly or more upgrades, absorbent, etc.

In another thread people pissed all over the Apple ULTRA / ULTRA 2 watch / DIVE COMPUTER. It offers a 1 week / month / annual Oceanic algorithm SPORT diving full NITROX computer plus is a fabulous sport watch! I've had people on my trips diving them and they LOVE them from the easy programming (another pet peeve of mine being the complexity of most dive computers) plus super bright easy to understand screen, automatic dive logging, etc.

I can tell you Apple is laughing all the way to the bank at $799.00. Yes, some people says their Casio G-Shock can also tell time, etc. But it ain't a dive computer.......

I had one long time dive trip guest use his Citizen AquaLand dive watch and still didn't understand it WASN'T A DIVE COMPUTER. For sport multi-dives / day it was in my opinion worthless.....But he thought it looked cool!

My point in rambling is changes based on market demand will continue even in the tiny, tiny world of scuba.

As I've previously mentioned I think training agencies, dive stores, liability lawyers and more have all contributed to making diving a less attractive activity which I find disheartening.

We'll see now the Avelo pricing and dive centers coming online does. As many have speculated they may have deep enough pockets to go on for quite awhile.

I hope you all just keep enjoying diving until we have to hang up the fins!

David Haas

One of my "NOT FUN" working dives with just a dry suit, backpack tank, weight belt and fins. March in Ohio, 35F water, mostly zero viz.....I'm glad those days are behind me!

 

[John Bantin]

When I first learned to leisure dive, I had to get my weighting right because we used solely our lungs for buoyancy control. Then I saw another diver with an ABLJ. It seemed like a good idea. Later I got what is now considered a conventional BC. One of my cars has manual gear change/clutch and no collision avoidance electronics. Are you shocked? I even have to dip the headlights myself. Just sayin' ...

 

[jadairiii]

Can remember if anyone posted this and I cant find it on Avelo's site (didnt look too hard), what is the lift capacity at the surface. Or some equivalent measurement?

 

[lowwall]

Can remember if anyone posted this and I cant find it on Avelo's site (didnt look too hard), what is the lift capacity at the surface. Or some equivalent measurement?

About 6 pounds with an empty tank. You are supposed to start the dive neutral to 2 pounds positive at the surface.

 

[jadairiii]

About 6 pounds with an empty tank. You are supposed to start the dive neutral to 2 pounds positive at the surface.

Sure doesn't keep one's head high out of the water if you have to spend any time on the surface. Hate to surface rough weather.