Review Diving the Avelo System

[We are Osea]

I completely agree.


Avelo by itself doesn't do anything to fix this. For one thing, it doesn't eliminate weight and air. You still have to deal with gas used over the course of a dive and wetsuit compression.

Avelo only appears to improve on standard gear because its approximately 6 pound limit on buoyancy swing requires that weighting be exact and so they require additional training to determine this.

But you could do exactly the same thing with conventional gear. Get the weighting correct and you never need more than 6 pints (2.8l) of gas in your wing which means typical level changes at depth require no adjustment at all.

If you really want to improve buoyancy across the spectrum, only allow 6 pound wings in OW courses.

With the Avelo system you are eliminating air in a bladder that you do not have 100% control of, that get's affected by movement up and down and surrounding pressure change.

 

[lexvil]

I smell horses

 

[Joneill]

Yes it is slow. one minute to add 2 lbs. Why do you want it fast? Slow is good.

This is a positive.

Not if reef hooked in strong currents where you want to quickly inflate you BC to fly up into the current - I don’t want to take a minute to do that. I also need to be able to immediately dump buoyancy if the reefhook dislodges to avoid getting swept off - super fast and easy with my wing.

Yep. It's expensive. Why buy a Porsche when a Ford Pinto will get the job done?

That is just an absurd comparison - there is a MONSTROUS difference in performance between those 2, whereas Avelo really offers no significant performance advantage for an experienced diver with good buoyancy.

When tanks are made available for purchase they will be offered with a roller bag capable of holding two tanks and the jetpack. It will be checkable. Now you do not have to remove the valves. You do need to almost empty the tanks.

Incorrect:

 

[EdMcNeill09]

Not if reef hooked in strong currents where you want to quickly inflate you BC to fly up into the current - I don’t want to take a minute to do that. I also need to be able to immediately dump buoyancy if the reefhook dislodges to avoid getting swept off - super fast and easy with my wing.

That is just an absurd comparison - there is a MONSTROUS difference in performance between those 2, whereas Avelo really offers no significant performance advantage for an experienced diver with good buoyancy.


Incorrect:

View attachment 844129

Pressurized Air Tanks (including scuba and scba)​

Pressurized scuba tanks/cylinders containing air or other nonflammable, nontoxic gases are regulated as hazardous materials once they reach a pressure of 200 kPa (29 psig/43.8 psia) at 68ºF (20ºC).

Empty scuba tanks or scuba tanks pressurized at less than 200 kPa are not restricted as hazardous materials. However, airlines and airport screening officials may require valves to be opened all the way for inspection. See tsa.gov for TSA's security screening requirements for scuba tanks.

From here https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe...uba tanks or scuba,all the way for inspection.

 

[Joneill]

Pressurized Air Tanks (including scuba and scba)​

Pressurized scuba tanks/cylinders containing air or other nonflammable, nontoxic gases are regulated as hazardous materials once they reach a pressure of 200 kPa (29 psig/43.8 psia) at 68ºF (20ºC).

Empty scuba tanks or scuba tanks pressurized at less than 200 kPa are not restricted as hazardous materials. However, airlines and airport screening officials may require valves to be opened all the way for inspection. See tsa.gov for TSA's security screening requirements for scuba tanks.

From here https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/outdoor-equipment#:~:text=Pressurized Air Tanks (including scuba and scba)&text=Empty scuba tanks or scuba,all the way for inspection.

So what’s your point? I posted the info directly from the TSA.gov website that the FAA info you posted directs you to and TSA are the folks who decide on this stuff when going through security.

 

[EdMcNeill09]

So what’s your point? I posted the info directly from the TSA.gov website that the FAA info you posted directs you to and TSA are the folks who decide on this stuff when going through security.

Well I know that this happens now and I expect it will be clarified when the tanks go on sale. What I'm saying is that the tanks will be allowed as checked baggage. I could be wrong but since people I know are doing this now I expect this will be allowed as checked baggage in the future.

 

[Joneill]

We’ll see. I don’t honestly get why anyone would want to travel with heavy scuba tanks (beyond a puny bottle). For local diving, I get it - but I’ve never seen anyone bring their own scuba tanks (except a pony) on any trip I’ve been on.

I have to ask for transparency - are you affiliated in some way with Avelo? It seems like some here may be given that some responses here feel like responses from the Avelo Marketing department.

As I’ve said, it’s cool tech but given the high cost (and for me what would be meaningless benefits) I don’t see it having broad appeal and adoption. Time will tell and I wish them well, but my time on Scubaboard has taught me that, generally, divers are a cheap bunch looking for value.

 

[EdMcNeill09]

We’ll see. I don’t honestly get why anyone would want to travel with heavy scuba tanks (beyond a puny bottle). For local diving, I get it - but I’ve never seen anyone bring their own scuba tanks (except a pony) on any trip I’ve been on.

I have to ask for transparency - are you affiliated in some way with Avelo? It seems like some here may be given that some responses here feel like responses from the Avelo Marketing department.

As I’ve said, it’s cool tech but given the high cost (and for me what would be meaningless benefits) I don’t see it having broad appeal and adoption. Time will tell and I wish them well, but my time on Scubaboard has taught me that, generally, divers are a cheap bunch looking for value.

I have been very clear that I'm an Avelo Instructor. I own Oahu Travel Divers which is an Avelo Dive Center in Hawaii. I joined the conversation to answer questions and to try to explain Avelo. I was the 17th person to become a Recreational Avelo Diver (RAD certification) and the 5th person to become an Avelo Instructor.

No one currently travels with tanks. Why would they? Tanks are heavy and readily available at local dive shops. Avelo tanks will not be readily available for some time. So being able to check one bag with two tanks and a jetpack would be pretty cool for some people.

The benefits are theoretically meaningless to you because you haven't dived Avelo. No worries. People who do dive Avelo tend to prefer Avelo over standard Scuba. I know I do as do many professional and recreational divers. Diving Avelo is sublime.

I would disagree with you about what divers want. The Scubapro Hydros is the best selling bcd on the market. It's expensive and in my opinion inferior to a less expensive BPW like xDeep. If people wanted great regs cheap they would buy Deep6 instead of the name brands that cost 2-3x. People will pay for better performance even when it's incremental. When I was an avid cyclist I bought Carbon Fiber bottle holders to shave a few grams off of my bike. Avelo isn't simply incremental. It is better buoyancy. Even for highly experienced and dialed in divers.

 

[scubadada]

One of the assumptions I see being made here is that if you already have excellent buoyancy control there is no benefit to trying/buying Avelo...

Yes, go back and read my initial review. I have 2360 dives in a wide variety of environments since 1997, good buoyancy and trim, and good gas consumption.

I took the Recreational Avelo Diver course and did additional dives out of curiosity and I had the opportunity on a visit to Bonaire. Avelo has a weight estimator in their eLearning. I rounded up and used 4 lb with a full 3 mm wetsuit. I was able to easily attain neutral buoyancy on the 1st training dive with a single run of the pump. I don't usually add/dump much gas from my BC and buoyancy is second nature. I did even less with Avelo. By the time I did my 3 independent dives, I added more ballast water to the system just once during the dive. The neutral buoyancy at all depths was impressive.

In my experience, the neutral buoyancy was as advertised, nearly effortless. I appreciated the lesser weight of the Avelo system compared to my standard setup with an AL80. After just 7 dives, I was not able to reap the benefit of lower gas consumption but my RMV is already on the low side (0.30 +/- 0.02 cu ft/min for my 30 dives on my standard set up for this trip to Bonaire).

So, I am not ready to drop $4000 to buy my own Jetpack. However, I will likely rent Avelo gear and give it another shot for some of my dives on my next visit to Bonaire this year, $110/day for 3 dives. I would also like to dive it out of my home in SE Florida when equipment becomes available in the area. As I already own a Shearwater Teric, for a $99 investment, I would be able to take advantage of having the Avelo Mode. I already own a 300 bar DIN regulator set to use.

Like many of you here, I look forward to seeing where this goes.

Edit: One of my few concerns regarding the Avelo System is that divers trained early and mainly using Avelo may have poor traditional diving skills. If they needed to use traditional equipment due to unavailability of Avelo, they may be poorly equipped for routine diving, perhaps exacerbated for an unusual or emergent event.

 

[lowwall]

One of the assumptions I see being made here is that if you already have excellent buoyancy control there is no benefit to trying/buying Avelo. What I have observed teaching Scuba Instructors Avelo is that it takes a little longer to realize the benefits. It often takes 3 dives before the penny drops. Newer divers or occasional divers typically "get it" sooner.

Angelo's tag line is "Simply Better Scuba" and it is. I have excellent buoyancy control in any bcd. Avelo is better than anything I have ever dove.

I see this sort of like electronic versus mechanical shifters on a high end bicycle groupset. You get incremental improvements in shifting abilities in exchange for additional complexity, loss of flexibility, and higher cost.

For the very top end groupsets, electronic shifting is winning out, but the price delta is only 10% to 20%. Not the 500% to 1000% to go from a BP/W to Avelo.