Review Diving the Avelo System

[David Haas]

OK, everyone else is right. No need to ever develop anything past BPW, dive only DIR configuration and lately transducer dive computers LOL.......

I die laughing when techies think a BPW is the Valhalla of dive gear..... ****, we had them in the 1980 - 1990s.

I do agree back mounted is much more streamlined and cheaper although I think every one of those bag in bag bladder with outer bag / cover things is 400% overpriced for what it is.

Again, dive whatever YOU want......

I will

DH

 

[We are Osea]

I suspect if they had additional training where proper weighting and neutral buoyancy was the priority, they would improve. Whether that's on Avelo or traditional equipment seems a bit immaterial.

I agree with you that additional training and a proper understanding of weight placement, breathing techniques, and other fundamentals are crucial to solving these problems. However, it seems that the focus today is often on the revenue dive schools can generate from new divers rather than on teaching quality skills. Unfortunately, many scuba instructors out there have simply paid to get their certification rather than investing the time and effort to become truly knowledgeable and effective teachers. This results in a high number of poorly trained divers who lack the necessary skills and understanding to dive safely and responsibly.

 

[Wibble]

I work in the resort industry, and we have a marine park here on the island. One of the biggest problems I see every day is people diving without proper training or understanding of buoyancy control. Often, in their attempts to take pictures, they end up damaging the ocean floor or coral that has taken years to grow. From what I've learned so far about the new Avelo dive system, it addresses and eliminates these issues. This technology is not just about enhancing the diving experience for individuals; it's also about preserving and protecting the ocean. Too many divers think they can dive properly, but without the right skills and tools, they can cause significant harm to marine ecosystems.

Hmmm.

Yes, it is a problem, a very serious problem.

However, it's not a technical problem, it is firmly a training problem which afflicts the pile-it-high-sell-it-cheap "do yer paddy" courses in 3 days at a resort.

It is staggering to see how many people are grossly overweighted and end up dropping like stones. It's similarly staggering to watch seahorses flapping their flippers to fight buoyancy deficiencies. Trim to some people is not flat at all.

(Was recently in the Caribbean on a resort dive boat for several days and am thinking of the vast amounts of lead many people used and as a consequence how quickly some descended feet first. Not all people, but enough to make this point.)

If only people were taught the basic skills of buoyancy, trim and finning. I'm sure some are, but many aren't.


With the Avelo system, the main benefit is someone teaches a diver how to be correctly weighted. Only then can the Avelo system be used. A BCD will cover up overweighting because there's a large bag of air to counteract the weight; if the diver jumped in correctly weighted then the BCD won't be a raging monster on their back, but a controllable tool with minor adjustments.

 

[Wibble]

* Upgrade path to tech, deep, multiple bottles, rebreathers has been mentioned by a small worldwide group of divers for oh, DECADES. and it hasn't become mainstream. I don't think rebreathers will EVER become "mainstream" due to the same points people are pissing on the Avelo product.

The rebreather point I made (Mares Horizon) was simply comparing the approximate entry price of Avelo to the Horizon. Not for a moment recommending rebreathers as an alternative.

Actually there's another point here; rebreathers are complicated machines that need a lot of training, practice and a pedantic attitude to use. "Recreational rebreather" is a complete oxymoron; it is absolutely technical diving.

Recreational rebreathers have never been, nor ever will be, a big market. Only a lot of money from Mares and Hollis have brought them to market -- it's hard to see if anyone even sells them.

 

[We are Osea]

Hmmm.

Yes, it is a problem, a very serious problem.

However, it's not a technical problem, it is firmly a training problem which afflicts the pile-it-high-sell-it-cheap "do yer paddy" courses in 3 days at a resort.

It is staggering to see how many people are grossly overweighted and end up dropping like stones. It's similarly staggering to watch seahorses flapping their flippers to fight buoyancy deficiencies. Trim to some people is not flat at all.

(Was recently in the Caribbean on a resort dive boat for several days and am thinking of the vast amounts of lead many people used and as a consequence how quickly some descended feet first. Not all people, but enough to make this point.)

If only people were taught the basic skills of buoyancy, trim and finning. I'm sure some are, but many aren't.


With the Avelo system, the main benefit is someone teaches a diver how to be correctly weighted. Only then can the Avelo system be used. A BCD will cover up overweighting because there's a large bag of air to counteract the weight; if the diver jumped in correctly weighted then the BCD won't be a raging monster on their back, but a controllable tool with minor adjustments.

Buoyancy and trim are the two most important skills that should be addressed from day one for new scuba divers. Instead of starting with exercises like standing on your knees in a pool, focusing on mastering buoyancy and trim early on is most important. This approach prioritizes the fundamental skills necessary for safe and effective diving, without neglecting other important aspects. By starting with these core skills, divers can develop a strong foundation and better adapt to more advanced techniques later on.

I think the Avelo system eliminates some weight and air in your system that has a big influence on buoyancy control.

 

[EdMcNeill09]

It is a phenomenal price for such a small benefit, especially using complex over-engineered technology.

Compared with 'standard' dive kit...

Pro:

• relatively constant buoyancy

Cons:

• slow battery operated pump

Yes it is slow. It takes a minute to add 2lbs of water to the tank. This does allow you to

• small variation in buoyancy
• proprietary carbon fibre cylinder and valves
• (fragile 300 bar carbon fibre cylinder - @Still Kicking)
• complex technology
• 300 bar gas required -- 50% greater than most recreational dive shops provide (for ali80s)
• slow fills to limit heat on carbon wrapped cylinder and bladder
• buoyancy training required to ensure correct weighting for user
• reliance on correct weighting on every dive: overweighting is a serious danger
• additional operator training
• limited pressure testing facilities to handle carbon fibre cylinders and proprietary equipment
• no additional surface buoyancy
• capital cost
• support availability
• flying rules (removal of cylinder valve)
• travel weight -- bring own cylinder and battery
• one dive only unless you bring two cylinders

Have I missed anything?

It is a phenomenal price for such a small benefit, especially using complex over-engineered technology.

Compared with 'standard' dive kit...

Pro:

• relatively constant buoyancy

better buoyancy control. Not just good buoyancy. Better. I explain it like this. When you go from a jacket to a BPW you discover sharper buoyancy control, and then maybe you go to side mount and again discover better buoyancy control. Avelo is sharper still and it's immediately accessible to divers of all experience

Cons:

• slow battery operated pump

one minute to add 2 lbs. Why do you want it fast? Slow is good.

• small variation in buoyancy

This is a positive.

• proprietary carbon fibre cylinder and valves
• (fragile 300 bar carbon fibre cylinder - @Still Kicking)

The tank comes in two finishes. The shiny nice one is the classic carbon fiber look. The second that dive shops get are coated in the stuff they spray into truck beds. Very durable. For people sho do lots of shore diving this is a better option.

• complex technology
• 300 bar gas required -- 50% greater than most recreational dive shops provide (for ali80s)

No. Fills can be done in any current dive shop to 3000 psi. I boost some of my tanks to around 3650 because I can.

• slow fills to limit heat on carbon wrapped cylinder and bladder

max of 500 psi per minute just like a standard aluminum or steel tank. Most shops fill at slower rates to limit wear on the tanks.

• buoyancy training required to ensure correct weighting for user

Just like standard scuba or are you making this a negative because it's not needed on standard scuba.

• reliance on correct weighting on every dive: overweighting is a serious danger
• additional operator training
• limited pressure testing facilities to handle carbon fibre cylinders and proprietary equipment

Please be serious in your negatives. the only changes needed to be made would be if you changed wetsuit thickness and needed to add or subtract a lb or 2. No big deal.

Yes you need to be certified on the gear to dive it or buy it.

Gosh I wonder where the fire departments get their tanks tested. How do they manage?

• no additional surface buoyancy

how much do you need? I dive in the Pacific and do just fine with Avelo at the surface.

• capital cost

Yep. It's expensive. Why buy a Porsche when a Ford Pinto will get the job done?

• support availability

Every Avelo Dive Center has Avelo Technicians.

• flying rules (removal of cylinder valve)
• travel weight -- bring own cylinder and battery
• one dive only unless you bring two cylinders

When tanks are made available for purchase they will be offered with a roller bag capable of holding two tanks and the jetpack. It will be checkable. And you do not have to remove the valves. You do need to almost empty the tanks.

Have I missed anything?

 

[lowwall]

Buoyancy and trim are the two most important skills that should be addressed from day one for new scuba divers. Instead of starting with exercises like standing on your knees in a pool, focusing on mastering buoyancy and trim early on is most important. This approach prioritizes the fundamental skills necessary for safe and effective diving, without neglecting other important aspects. By starting with these core skills, divers can develop a strong foundation and better adapt to more advanced techniques later on.

I completely agree.

I think the Avelo system eliminates weight and air in your system that has a big influence on buoyancy control.

Avelo by itself doesn't do anything to fix this. For one thing, it doesn't eliminate weight and air. You still have to deal with gas used over the course of a dive and wetsuit compression.

Avelo only appears to improve on standard gear because its approximately 6 pound limit on buoyancy swing requires that weighting be exact and so they require additional training to determine this.

But you could do exactly the same thing with conventional gear. Get the weighting correct and you never need more than 6 pints (2.8l) of gas in your wing which means typical level changes at depth require no adjustment at all.

If you really want to improve buoyancy across the spectrum, only allow 6 pound wings in OW courses.

 

[EdMcNeill09]

One of the assumptions I see being made here is that if you already have excellent buoyancy control there is no benefit to trying/buying Avelo. What I have observed teaching Scuba Instructors Avelo is that it takes a little longer to realize the benefits. It often takes 3 dives before the penny drops. Newer divers or occasional divers typically "get it" sooner.

Angelo's tag line is "Simply Better Scuba" and it is. I have excellent buoyancy control in any bcd. Avelo is better than anything I have ever dove.

My current vehicle is a Nissan NV 2500HD work van. I have about 50 tanks in the back. It isn't my favorite ride. My favorite ride was my 2002 Porsche Boxster. We lived in the Bay Area and driving around wine country or around the Santa Cruz mountains with the top down and a snarling engine was sweet and fun. Now a Ford Escort would have got the job done and honestly I could have bought two of them for what I paid for my Boxster. I would argue that the Boxster was a better car. My dad called it an overpriced VW.

Avelo is simply better scuba. Some people will value this and buy it. Others will value this and dive it at Avelo Dive Centers. Others will not value the difference Avelo makes and that's fine too. I have a friend here on Oahu with over 10k dives and he dives a 30 year old vest.

 

[Still Kicking]

. The second that dive shops get are coated in the stuff they spray into truck beds. Very durable.

How do you check the integrity of the tank under the Rhinoliner?

This was an issue back when steel tanks were vinyl coated.

 

[EdMcNeill09]

How do you check the integrity of the tank under the Rhinoliner?

This was an issue back when steel tanks were vynial coated.

You don't have to in a visual inspection. If the rhino liner is fine you're good to go. With a carbon fiber tank the visual inspection is for cuts into the carbon fiber. If the Rhinoliner isn't cut the cabin fiber can't be cut.