Diving sidemount on liveaboards?

[Wookie]

Except of course this statement of law isn’t accurate. HSA does apply to passenger vessels- even outside of US waters so long as you pick up or discharge passengers in the US or it’s territories-
https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/PVGuidance2_3_11.pdf

You are correct to my response, I said passenger vessels, which DoT pissed off by requiring newbuilds to be ADA compliant. I should have said "Small Passenger Vessels", or "Uninspected Passenger Vessels", also exempt.

The reason for the exemption is that SPV boats usually cannot be physically modified to make accommodations for ADA passengers, specifically wheelchair access over watertight boundaries and elevators for access to berthing.

We carried HSA veterans groups at no charge because 1) veterans and 2) they took care of their battle buddies, but only on day trips. That was a decision made between the leader of the veterans group and myself, in the interest of keeping the vets comfortable. They had lodging at the Fly Navy in Key West, and ADA compliant vans, and we were happy to accomodate as best we could, but you still have to come up a ladder to get on the boat.

Had I remained in the dive business, my next boat would have been a 65 foot strictly designed for HSA divers. There is a huge market and no one is catering to them. We would have built a diver lift on the transom between 2 regular ladders with a chair for the diver to sit on when they got raised out of the water, with heads and a couple of double cabins on the main deck. An extra wide jump gate to accommodate sidemount/wheelchair divers, and a wide open deck to accommodate chairs and plenty of deck space.

I'd still do it, but my deck boss is not keen on getting back in the dive business.

 

[Manatee Diver]

In the US, CG inspected passenger vessels are not required to make accommodations for ADA passengers.

Aw, oops, except small passenger vessels (which all dive boars are) which carry fewer than 50 overnight passengers (which all dive boats do) are exempt. Damn. Missed it by that much.

Wookie I think you are confusing the requirements of larger vessels to be built to be able to accommodate wheel chair bound customers to be able to access all major customer sections of a boat, with the separate ADA requirement that businesses make reasonable modifications to their business practices to allow handicapped customers to enjoy their services. That section of the law has no minimum size requirements to apply.

If you ban sidemount off your boat, and a customer with a covered disability requires sidemount to be able to dive. They can make a case for allowing sidemount as a reasonable modification. Now if your reason for banning it is safety related, you can make a case of that. But if they don't like it and sue you, well it will be a very expensive time explaining it to a judge. You might win and not have to make the modification, but you will definitely lose either way as court cases are expensive. So it would probably be easier to figure out how to safely accommodate the person. And yes I know you are retired and this doesn't apply to you, but others that might read it aren't.

 

[Omisson]

Aw, oops, except small passenger vessels (which all dive boars are) which carry fewer than 50 overnight passengers (which all dive boats do) are exempt. Damn. Missed it by that much.

You mean this group?
“The Architectural and Transportation Barriers Compliance Board (Access Board) is considering the development of accessibility guidelines under the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 for newly constructed or altered passenger vessels which carry 150 or fewer passengers or 49 or fewer overnight passengers. This notice seeks comment on various issues related to the development of accessibility guidelines for these types of passenger vessels.”

Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA) Accessibility Guidelines for Passenger Vessels; Small Vessels

 

[Omisson]

Aw, oops, except small passenger vessels (which all dive boars are) which carry fewer than 50 overnight passengers (which all dive boats do) are exempt. Damn. Missed it by that much.

Language precision is important.

but the exemptions for small vessels only apply to architectural and construction matters NOT to general accommodation- under the ADA-

there is still a requirement for small vessels to ACCOMMODATE disabled persons under the ADA - the exemption you are relying on is only for facility construction requirements (bathroom rails, transom distances, etc)…

 

[Wookie]

Wookie I think you are confusing the requirements of larger vessels to be built to be able to accommodate wheel chair bound customers to be able to access all major customer sections of a boat, with the separate ADA requirement that businesses make reasonable modifications to their business practices to allow handicapped customers to enjoy their services. That section of the law has no minimum size requirements to apply.

If you ban sidemount off your boat, and a customer with a covered disability requires sidemount to be able to dive. They can make a case for allowing sidemount as a reasonable modification. Now if your reason for banning it is safety related, you can make a case of that. But if they don't like it and sue you, well it will be a very expensive time explaining it to a judge. You might win and not have to make the modification, but you will definitely lose either way as court cases are expensive. So it would probably be easier to figure out how to safely accommodate the person. And yes I know you are retired and this doesn't apply to you, but others that might read it aren't.

I won in court.

I was on the working group with DoT and USCG to give input for small passenger vessel compliance with ADA specifically.

My ADA court case involved not accommodating a woman with a mental health disability. She was on medications that were a contraindication to diving. She lied on the booking form. It wasn’t really that expensive.

I would make a case that there are no ADA requirements that would allow diving side mount that wouldn’t allow back mount that are not a contraindication to diving.

I don’t hate side mount, except I see it as a diving fad. What I hate is a diver insisting that they dive side mount on a boat that is not set up for it. As you and others have said, we all have our choice of boats to go on. As a boat owner, I had the luxury of choosing what customers I wanted to provide a service to as well. We tried it, it was a failure for 2 reasons. The first was that the diver had zero respect for the paint job, and left a trail of paint chips from my bulkheads in his wake. The second was that when I bitched at him for tearing up my paint, he made everyone on the boats life miserable with his under breath comments and sniping.

 

[Manatee Diver]

I would make a case that there are no ADA requirements that would allow diving side mount that wouldn’t allow back mount that are not a contraindication to diving.

A spinal cord injury that causes major back pain if weight is applied to the lower back, could be a covered disability. And that is just one I could think of off the top of my head. ADA doesn't specify any disability simply that it must be a substantial impairment to one of more major facets of your life. I am sure that people can think of a dozen disabilities that would be covered and wouldn't be a contraindication to diving.

 

[MichaelMc]

the diver had zero respect for the paint job, and left a trail of paint chips from my bulkheads in his wake

Where they going down passageways with tanks on?