Diving "Modern" with "Vintage" Reg

[dherbman]

Thanks for the great replies, guys. All this time, I just thought you were too cheap to buy something modern.

I had a double hose in the 80's I liked for doing shallow photography. I never enjoyed the way it breathed.

Nemrod, you mentioned advantages of the double hose. Can you point me to a good site or thread?

 

[ClevelandDiver]

.............
Some people confuse vintage with just being to cheap to get new gear, we actually dive this stuff and the modern world requires certain things that did not exist in the SeaHunt era............

N

I agree with all your other points, but I have never been accused of being cheap for using vintage gear. Insane, yes, cheap no. Misplaced priorities, undoubtedly. I have enough vintage gear to stage my own mini sea hunt episode, yet I am about 2 weeks away from having the city cite me for all the paint peeling off my house.

Of course part of the reason I am not accused of being cheap is that most of my vintage gear is older than me (D.O.B 1970) and I clearly had to hunt it down as opposed to just holding on to it refusing to update. Also, the fact that I have enough modern gear to put at least 3 fully equiped divers 130 feet down in COLD water.

Now if I can just score a set of DA cans for my so-crazy-it-just-might-work triple house/double tank/double reg project, I'll be good to go for another month or two.

 

[ClevelandDiver]

Thanks for the great replies, guys. All this time, I just thought you were too cheap to buy something modern.

I had a double hose in the 80's I liked for doing shallow photography. I never enjoyed the way it breathed.

Nemrod, you mentioned advantages of the double hose. Can you point me to a good site or thread?

vintagedoublehose.com
vintagescubasupply.com

both have excellent forums.

What model double hose were you using in the 80s?

 

[BSea]

Some people confuse vintage with just being to cheap to get new gear, we actually dive this stuff and the modern world requires certain things that did not exist in the SeaHunt era.

As you know the vintage gear is anything but cheap. And anyone (like me) who has recently started to aquire a vintage reg or other gear has found out, the aquisition is just the beginning.

Learning the gear is almost like learning to dive all over again. As luis has shown, how you wear your tank, and where the regulator sits on your back is so much more important than it is with modern gear, but it really does make all the difference in the world.

I've only made a few vintage dives, but there is nothing like the looks you get when you connect that double hose to your tank. I'm still working on my gear, and right now, I'm using a pony for a safe 2nd & to inflate my BC. My main goal now if to find a RAM and wait till the nozzel is available to have all the modern conveniences.

I originally started to collect a regulator here or there just for show, and maybe a few dives a year. Now I'm starting to really get the fever. Just wish my wife understood why I want to spend $$$$ on a 40 year old regulator. Not to mention me quest for yellow hoses.

 

[Nemrod]

"Not to mention me quest for yellow hoses."

Oh no, that is a search that might rival that for the Holy Grail, frought with danger and who knows what could come of you---give it up now.

dherb, advanages you ask? You dove a "double hose" back aways. What double hose was it? That is like saying you dive a single hose but don't care for it---lol--which one--they are not all the same.

The double hose regulators that are easiest to find parts for and restore are certain Voit and USD models. The Royal Aqua Master is my favorite because as mentioned, it can use parts for modern single hose units, they breath nicely when tuned by somebody who knows what they are doing and the thing is set up with correctly.

Other advantages are:

1. that they do not freeze up
2. they are generally very quiet and smooth
3. they don't beat your ears with bubbles or obscure your vision with bubbles
4. The mouthpiece is light and the hose bouyancy helps to support it eliminating jaw fatigue
5. Properly tuned a Royal or DA or Trieste can flow large amounts of air. They are supremely reliable, they have few O-rings or seals and this simplicity and robustness of design makes them reliable and durable even under severe conditions
6. FUN!!!!!!!!!

Disadvantages:
1. Position sensitive
2. Tanks must be worn low on the back and as close to the back as possible
3. tend to have higher cracking effort --especially head down
4. diffucult to buddy breath--unless trained for it
5. generally require adapters to support modern devices, octapus, BC, spg, etc
6. no purge button--requires some skill to clear

I always here this "I used to use a double hose but it was hard to breath". OK, fair enough, here is why, you were probably using some old wore out Healthways rig or Sportsways or if not it may still have been severe need for a tune up. You single hose guys get your regulators rebuilt annually, don't you figure that at least every couple of decades you might want to do an overhaul on that double hose? N

 

[Nemrod]

"What's the point of all the *******ization? Doesn't the retrofitting kinda defeat the purpose?"

There is one other point. Single hose regulators have continued to be developed. For various reasons most double hose production ended in the early 70s and what remained was as if frozen in time--no new development. Imagine if both types had continued to evolve. So, that is why like Creed says that he likes to tinker with dobule hose regs. They are like a promise unfullfilled, an incomplete canvas.

What is more fun to own, a Honda Civic with a faux nitrous decal (typical modern single hose) or a 1967 Shelby GT (Royal Aqua Master or Trieste)? One is the real deal and the other is pretend like. You want to know what is under the hood of that Shelby, in a sense we hot rod some of these things so that they perform well beyond what they originally were capable of. A silly analogy but in a way the vintage era of diving does have parallels with the muscle car era. N

 

[Luis H]

The one disadvantage Nemrod didn’t mentioned is the added required maintenance involved with the hoses (and they are perceived as delicate). In my opinion, this was one of the primary reasons the double hose lost out to the single hose popularity (the lack of a HP port for SPG was number two, IMHO).

In the 70’s a Royal Aqua Master was regarded a better breathing regulator than most, if not all (single or double hose) regulators. The position sensitive (Items 1 and 2 in Nemrod’s list) was well understood but it wasn’t an issue. If you look at the drawing from Bill Barada book “Let’s go Diving” (look below) you can see that there are tradeoffs in regulator positioning.

If you restrict yourself to swimming exclusively in a horizontal position, a single hose regulator has the advantage, but in a 3 dimensional world (like an underwater reef) I never restrict myself to only being horizontal, therefore the single hose tends to loose that advantage.

In the 60’s and 70’s there were several DH regulators that were hard breathers (Dacor, some Healthways, and several others), but even they were probably better than some of the single hose of that time period (USD Aquamatic, Healthways Airstream, etc.).

Back to my point on hose maintenance:
The hoses are perceived as delicate (in Sea Hunt they often got cut accidentally inside a wreck), but they really aren’t. I have never seen a good hose getting cut (not to be confused with a deteriorated hose). The navy has used and continues to use DH regulators and some firefighters SCBA use very similar type of hoses. The problem is when the inside of the hoses get wet you have to rinse them and dry them or you will get bacteria growth.

For most people it is enough of a hassle having to rinse or soak the outside of all the gear after a dive. Having to take apart the hose assembly to rinse the inside and dry it is an additional hassle. I dive almost every weekend, so you can see that I replaced the screws on the clamps at the regulator end with thumb screws. Other modern DH divers use quick release plastic clams and I know of one diver that buys zip ties in bulk to use as hose clamps and cuts them after every dive trip.

I am not saying that the increase maintenance by itself killed the double hose in the 70’s. But, I think that was the first step, closely followed by manufacturers lack of improvements such as adding HP, LP ports and a more robust exhaust valve (something more durable than the original duckbill), etc.




Here is the diagram I mentioned:

From "Let's Go Diving", an Illustrated Diving Manual by Bill Barada, Published by U.S. Divers Co., 3323 West Warner Ave., Santa Ana, CA. Catalog No. 7804-00, Copyright 1962, 4th Printing November 1965, page 29.

 

[Luis H]

Disadvantages:

6. no purge button--requires some skill to clear

N

Oh… with a double hose it is not as important not having a purge button. All you really have to do is raise the mouthpiece above the diaphragm and it free flows, purging the mouthpiece. It is not as convenient as a purge button, but it works.

It does require some skill.

 

[Nemrod]

Luis, I said that a double hose required some skill to clear because apparently the current crop of divers cannot even clear a snorkel. They have silly snorkels with funny tubes and balls and vlves in them so they don't get any of that nasty seawater in their mouth. Imagine that. Maybe it is time for the return of the twin snorkel mask with pingpong balls.
The hoses are quite rugged,especiaally the reproduction ones. I saw a single hose tear during a dive, it got caught on a piece of metal and kinked the hose at the fitting and immediantly began jetting air! The point is you can tear or cut anything but I have never seen a hose tear except on Sea Hunt but I do know that at Wazee last year a hose tore apart. It was probably old and already damaged.
I think your point about hose maintenance being one of the things that killed off double hose production may be right on. The dh regulators are robust and reliable but the hoses need to be dried and cleaned periodicly.
I am quite positive when I took my NAUI class that my super hero instructor told me when I mentioned I like those "new" single hoses and wanted a Calypso that he told me "why, son, those are for girls." Yep, that is what he said, now remember I was like 12 or 13 and here my hero (other than my dad) was questioning my orientation. Most disturbing., I moped around for days thinking I was dooomed to a life of watching Funny Girl, what would the nuns think and then I tossed that sissy Calypso into my closet and grabbed out my Mistral. YEAH---manly men --- dive double hose, men of the deep, super heros, Ugggghhhghhh, Uggggghhhhhhh, Aarrrrrrrrrrr, no girly men around here. LOL.
N

 

[Luis H]

Luis, I said that a double hose required some skill to clear because apparently the current crop of divers cannot even clear a snorkel. They have silly snorkels with funny tubes and balls and vlves in them so they don't get any of that nasty seawater in their mouth. Imagine that. Maybe it is time for the return of the twin snorkel mask with pingpong balls.

LOL.
N

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: