Diving "Modern" with "Vintage" Reg

[Luis H]

I normally agree with Nemrod, but in this case I have slightly different opinion. If your regulator technician has previous experience with Aqua Masters, IMHO he is probably OK. One of the great things about a DA Aqua Master is that they are very simple and extremely reliable.

He can buy parts and service kits from VintageDoubleHose.com and even down load service manuals from that web site. Hoses and duckbills are available from both VDH and VSS.

It is possible that if the dive shop has been around for a wile, he may have some NOS parts and tools, but I wouldn’t count on that.

To check the intermediate pressure he is going to need a hookah adapter so you might as well buy one right away since you need it for your LP source. He may have an old 2nd stage IP gauge adapter, but going into the hookah port is much better.

Your regulator has the old box clips that can be replace with a box clamp from VDH and I strongly recommend that you do. It makes it a lot easier to service and maintain your regulator. The old box clips are historically correct for the earlier DA AM, but they are a pain and they increase the chance of scratching and damaging the box.

At VSS there is a nice write up on an improved technique on how to remove the box clips that reduces the chance of scratching the box.

The potential disadvantages of using your LDS technician:
• He probably doesn’t worked on many double hose regulators now a days.
• If he has been around for a wile he may be set in his way and not wiling to go to the internet to shop for new reproduction parts and down load manuals.
• Since we don’t have an unlimited supply of parts anymore, new techniques are being used to restore and reuse some of the existing parts (the first stage seat of the DA is a good example). Your tech may not be familiar or willing to try new restoring methods.
• In the old days we did some things differently since part were always available. If he has any trouble (which is very unlikely, but possible), he probably won’t have the time to research or ask questions on the vintage message board.

You may need to assist him by pointing him to the two vintage equipment diving web sites on the internet.

The regulators are very simple and for the most part very robust, but every single part is precious since we have very few replacements. Replaceable gaskets, etc. are available, but if a metal part gets damage (like a volcano orifice) you are in trouble.

You will have to judge whether your trust your tech, or you can do as Nemrod recommends and send it to one of the guys that specialize on this equipment.

If you see the tech with any chisels, or hammers, or hear any clanging noises from the back room do take it away from him!

If you go to the Aqua Lung site under the Q&A section and look for vintage double hose regulators, it will actually direct you to the VSS web site.

 

[Peter Guy]

Guys, thanks for the advice. BUT, Roy (the tech) is quite familiar with 2-hose regs (they are sort of his passion) and he is quite familiar with the two main Vintage places. Hey, he could even quote me the prices for all the parts he will buy from Vintage Supply from memory!

Yes he and the shop owner oohed and aahed over the condition of the reg -- the owner had to go grab his DA so we could compare SN's (his is a few hundred higher).

Once it is back in my hot little hands, I'll play around with it in the pool -- then once I'm comfortable (again) out to Puget Sound we'll go. (I'm hoping I'll get the shop owner and Roy to all go out with our DA's -- it would be great fun to meet "At the Office" where all the "DIR" types congregate and just let them look at the crazies!)

Nemrod -- thank you for your concern -- but, honestly, in this case, I strongly believe it is misplaced.

 

[Nemrod]

Well, maybe he is OK, maybe I worry to much. I have had such bad luck with LDS over the years I immediantly don't trust them until proven otherwise.

I am so excited that you will be diving a double hose. Soon, you will win over TSandM, y'all be careful and have fun. N

 

[duckbill]

Peter,
You said that you dove a DAAM in the 60s. You didn't mention how much experience you had with them back then, and maybe it's like riding a bicycle, but don't neglect to practice hose clearing drills with your new one when you hit the pool. You might also want to get with your dive buddy to practice some double hose buddy breathing techniques (on your left side, exhaust hose down, flip the mouthpiece down and out, etc.) so you're both familiar and comfortable with them, just in case.
You'll have a blast!

 

[Peter Guy]

Duckbill, I don't know how much experience I had with my Aquamaster back then either -- except that I dove it for about 10 years.

One of the main reasons I want to do "modern" with the DA is to get away from buddy breathing since it is not taught any more (as far as I can tell). I want to have a "longish" hose reg to donate in an OOA situation -- just as I want to be able to use my BC and drysuit.

But yes, I will certainly practice with the DA in a controlled environment for some time before I go back out into the wild open spaces. (What I'd really like to be able to end up doing is taking it with me to dive warm water -- but even if I can get it set up the way I want, I don't think I'll be able to because it won't handle a 3000 PSI AL80. I can just imagine the looks from so many of the people on a boat who dive just a few times a year -- What is he doing?)

 

[Luis H]

The DA Aqua Master can handle 3000 psi. At 3000 psi the IP gets a little lower so it breather a little harder.

The Royal Aqua Master 1st stage is the same as a Conshelf, Titan, etc. so it has no issues with 3000 psi (or even higher with a heavy yoke).

For charter boat and some other commercial dive sites you will need an SPG, octopus, and BC inflator anyway. That is one of the reasons we have developed the Phoenix Royal Aqua Master conversion/replacement nozzle/ 1st stage body. It provides ports for all those gadgets and can convert any DA into a Royal. The conversion is reversible for historical preservation reasons.

The Royal does breathe better. The balanced 1st stage has larger air flow orifices, therefore the IP fluctuates very little at any tank pressure and most flow rates. Most of us are using very high IP pressures in our Royals now a days.

Using a banjo and a hookah port adapter is also very straight forward and easy with your DA.

I still recommend that you get a main body band clamp (from Bryan):
http://vintagedoublehose.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6_14&products_id=31

And if you need hoses, the new ones from Dan are very nice. They are very...very comfortable but they need a little bit more maintenance. The high number of convolutions makes the inside harder to dry. Plenty of discussions on the vintage sites about this subject.
http://www.vintagescubasupply.com/hoses.html

I am glad you are joining us in the fun.
Not only do I always prefer diving my double hose (and most of the times I do use some of the modern peripheral gadgets), but it is cool to see look and the silly question some of the other divers come up with.

Have fun!

 

[Nemrod]

" but even if I can get it set up the way I want, I don't think I'll be able to because it won't handle a 3000 PSI AL80. I can just imagine the looks from so many of the people on a boat who dive just a few times a year -- What is he doing?)"

Why is that exactly, I dive 3,000 psi with both my DA and or any of my three Royal Aqua Masters. The main concern is the standard yoke. Heavy yokes can be gotten from VSS. In any case I have been doing just fine with the standard duty long yoke wth 3,000 psi on my DA. The DA does fine at 3,000 psi and the Royal Aqua Master can handle any pressure a modern Conshelf can handle if equipped with a heavy yoke.

As Luis has stated and as both he and I do---using a hookah port adapater into a three way or two way LP splitter, you can run an LP hose and an octapus. I run an octapus on a 40 inch hose. I let it come under my arm and sometimes I mount a swivel fitting on the second stage so it presents better. I loop it around my neck with bungee material--get TSandM to show you how to do that--lol. My LP hose is a custom made length ffrom DiveRite. It loops back behind me and over to my wing's inflator. The SPG runs on a Chuck Broxton banjo adapter and it is clipped to my waist D ring on the left side on a 22ish inch hose Hog style. Using an aluminum 80 on my Hammerhead BP with their STA the tank position is not optimal but I have slightly modified mine to allow me to lower the tank at least partialy making up for the STA. I have had good success with this rig and it is a fully modern rig except that I am using a Royal or DA. In fact, aside from the lack of that stupid 7 foot cave hose and hauling a can light around in clear well lit water I am fully DIR configured. Of course, in this configuration there is another difference you will need to discuss with TSandM ---you will donate to her your secondary--the bungeed regulator --and you will stay on your primary which is the DA. This is not the DIR procedure where you donate the primary but she is a smart lady and I know she can handle it.

If for some reason your DA quits (highly unlikely) then the under arm octapus that is bungeed to your neck will be used. I use the slip style bungee so I can pop the second stage free from the bungee. I push the double hose mouthpiece down on my neck/chest and allow the now free second stage of the octapus to come over it (normally below when stowed). It is more trouble to expalin that it is to do--works great-fully modern, semi DIR, and allows me to swap from double hose to single hose diiving without changing anything else. In fact, this set up will allow you to use that stupid cave diving 7 foot hose if you absolutely must. I can also sling a stage or pony using this setup. It is absolutely exactly what you first asked to do and I do it all the time.

The clamp ring Luis mentions is a godsend from VDH. The clips ar a pain in the rear and often damage the case as well as preventing a good and regular cleaning. I would have this fitted at VDH or if you insist the LDS who I am still dubiious of.

N

 

[captain]

The US Navy was using standard DA's on 3000 psi tanks the 1950's. It is not a problem.

 

[duckbill]

10 years! Then it's definitely old hat for you. You won't need much refreshment, I'm sure.
The DAAM will do O.K on 3000 psi, but then again the seat WILL last longer if you stay with lower pressures. The U.S.Navy and dive shops of the past had an endless supply of HP seats. Not so today (although they can be resurfaced). You can still use an AL80, though. There is no law which says you can't bleed it down before you hook your regulator to it.

 

[TSandM]

Would you guys stop encouraging him? What he does at home is his own business; what he does in Indonesia where he's MY buddy is a different story! Let him believe that the Al80's are incompatible, will you?