Diving "Modern" with "Vintage" Reg

[Luis H]

Without getting too far off topic and discussing proper weighting, you should have enough lead such that you are neutrally buoyant at 10 ft, be it with a bc or without. The problem comes about when instructors are over weighting their students to the point of 5-10# negative (which is pretty significant, even for a strong swimmer).

I totally…totally agree.

...I wish other instructors would stop treating a BC as an elevator.

I keep on saying that the need for a BC has just about ruined the 3 dimensional feeling I had when diving in the Caribbean. Without air in a BC you can swim in all 3 dimensions and totally forget the difference between horizontal and up or down. You really swim in a three dimensional world. Only an astronaut will experience the same feeling, actually astronauts train in a pool in Huntsville, Alabama, to learn the feeling of a true 3 dimensional world.

 

[duckbill]

Peter, I hope that the information here will help you find a workable solution to diving your new DAAM the way you want to. As mentioned previously, Vintage SCUBA Supply and Vintage Double Hose have very good forums which you may wish to check out or join. Congratulations on your eBay win. Double hose regulators are great fun!




Since we are slightly off topic for the time being:

Without getting too far off topic and discussing proper weighting, you should have enough lead such that you are neutrally buoyant at 10 ft, be it with a bc or without.

Most everything you said previously was right-on. That is why I envy warm water divers
Neutral at 10 feet, surface, 15 feet is all debatable. But neutral WHEN? You forgot to say, "end of dive". So how negative are you at the beginning of the dive? Rough estimate says almost 5 pounds with a standard steel 72. You still have to work to stay off the bottom when using no BC, especially at the beginning of the dive. Also, with no wet suit, a diver neutral at 10 feet will also be just as neutral at the surface, or at 100 feet.

72 cu.ft. - 13 cu.ft. reserve = 59 cu.ft. used during dive.
59 cu.ft. x .08 lbs/cu.ft. = 4.72 lbs.

I found (IMHO) the best way to use a crotch strap is from the bottom of your back pack/ BC to the front of your weight belt. That way if you ever decide to release your weight belt the crotch strap will also release and will not interfere with dropping the weight belt.

That is what the original USD weight belt buckle was designed to do. The French Navy also used this design. It had a hook on the bottom of it which captured a hoop on the crotch strap when it was in the locked position, and released it when undone.

 

[Nemrod]

"I use a 3 mil suit with a DA Aquamastern on a steel 72,and no bc. "

Me too, I am neutral and I easily achieve neutral without a BC as long as I don't go beyond my 3/2 mil suit or dive without a a suit or shorty type affair. I am not crawling on the bottom, I am absolutely neutral. LOL, cheap wetsuits are better for this since I think they crush shallow!! In the pic in the new Ikelite site the fellow leading along the glass window in the shorty is me, I am absolutely neutral with no weight. I can set up for that condition in salt or fresh with or wthout a shorty, 3 mil wetsuit or not

You guys who are using a BC are using it correctly to balance yourself and maintain a neutral condition, you are not using it as it is taught now to ascend and descend like some sort of inflatable elevator and surface life support sytem. When I do use a BC I suck it flat and then weight for as neutral a condition as I can get without if I am using a compressible suit plus what the empty tank might need. That way at depth I need only a puff of air. Of course your correct in that heavy exposure protection requires a BC and that the BC does help keep the swarm from crawling and banging into the reef and bottom denuding it. True, you cannot learn to dive sans BC and maintain reasonable neutral condition in a three hour PadI course.

It is fun to recreate an era but it is also fun to just pick the gear that suits your dive even if it is a wing/BP, slung pony and double hose with octapus second and an aluminum 80.

One other thing, to Peter, look for the Dacor valves, the ones with the metal wheel. These are thinner than most 3,000 psi valves and with a heavy yoke and banjo they will still allow assembly--barely. The Dacor valves were avaialble with J or K and with both fat O-rings and the modrn thin high pressure type so shop wisely. They also allow the connection of an spg direct to the valve. I have several of them and they are my favorite valve for all sorts of diving, they are also rugged, relaible and the more recent ones were good for 3,500 psi. These were about the only thing Dacor ever made that was any good. N

 

[dherbman]

"I use a 3 mil suit with a DA Aquamastern on a steel 72,and no bc. "

Me too, I am neutral and I easily achieve neutral without a BC as long as I don't go beyond my 3/2 mil suit or dive without a a suit or shorty type affair. I am not crawling on the bottom, I am absolutely neutral. N

How do you compensate for the shift in buoyancy that occurs as your tank becomes lighter during the dive? You must be using your lungs as a BC.

 

[Nemrod]

Yes, the lungs act as a BC, that is how I was taught. Not every body style works well for this, you need a large tidal volume and lung capacity for this to work at it's best results

I am diving with the venerable steel 72 (or a few older light twins that worked nearly as well). I can achieve similar results with an aluminum 80 but it is not as easy or desireable. The LP steel 72 had perfect characterisitics for this type of diving. I am using a harness or plastic plate that adds no weight, I am not carrying a lot of extra gear to compensate for.

I am using minimal exposure protection in WARM water.

I am not saying not to use a BC, just why when you don't need one? When yoiu do and you use it for bouyancy compensation only, then great. Obviously there are times and conditions that merit a BC and it's proper uses. My BC does not have cup holders or oher gimmicks and any I buy in the future will not either. The BC has become a huge profit center for the dive industry.

N

 

[Peter Guy]

Thanks all for the links.

1. Without even taking my new reg home, I dropped it off at my local LDS where the lead tech (he started diving in '67) and the owner (who just got his "new" DA rebuilt by the lead tech) both oohed and awed over my purchase. I figure I'll put another couple hundred into it (hoses, duckbills, etc.).

2. Diving here in the PNW I will stay with my drysuit (thank you very much!) so that means I have to have low pressure hoses for it AND my BC (and yes, I'll be adding a BP/W (don't chuckle too much TSandM!) pretty soon -- especially if I double up my old (circa '70) LP 72's).

3. I keep telling TSandM that this rig will be my precursor to CCR!

 

[TSandM]

I keep telling TSandM that this rig will be my precursor to CCR!

:shakehead

 

[fishb0y]

Sorry guys I wrote that VERY early in the morning my time... and after a 14 hour work day, I still see nothing wrong... just kidding. I meant neutrally buoyant at 10 feet at the end of your dive. Say night night fishb0y!

 

[Nemrod]

"1. Without even taking my new reg home, I dropped it off at my local LDS where the lead tech (he started diving in '67) and the owner (who just got his "new" DA rebuilt by the lead tech) both oohed and awed over my purchase. I figure I'll put another couple hundred into it (hoses, duckbills, etc.)."

Very BAD move---very bad. I seriously doubt more than a handful of LDS have parts, manuals, tools, knowledge to do anything with a double hose other than "ooh and ahh" at them. I don't care if the fellow was in the Navy and knew Admiral Byrd. The likelyhood of them having a rebuild kit, duckbill valve, cage valves, new hoses, or a manual is essentially nearly ZERO. This is like taking your Ferrari to a Ford dealer just because the receptionist used to work at a Ferrair dealer. Aside from several folks who hang on the mentioned websites and the folks at VSS and VDH there is virtually no parts, supplies for these regulators. US Divers is long gone out of buisness and Aqua Lung does NOT sell or make any parts for any USD double hose regulators nor do they provide service or support or quite possibly even know they ever existed.

I would go get my regulator back from them and hope that it is still repairable after they assualt it with pliers and hammers and screwdrivers and chisels and send it to the experts previously mentioned---NOW!!!!! Both mentioned places have NOS parts and new reproduction parts and service and manuals and tools and the KNOWLEDGE to correctly tune and repair your DA. If I am wrong about that LDS then so be it but in any case, be very careful--ask to see their manuals.

If you use a STA with an aluminum80 on a typical BP then it is highly unlikely that you will be able to properly position the regulator. The DA as so with all double hose regulators--and I can not over emphasise this-----must be placed as low on the back and as close to the back as possible. Additionally, if the BP/wing puts you into the "nose low" position I see so many modern techie divers in then I absolutely guarantee you will not be happy with your regulators performance. Physics will not be altered by style or fashion, it is what it is. N

 

[Turtleguy9]

Aloha Peter Guy
Nice to see you here in the Vintage part of the Forum.
Stop off on Oahu with a bit of time, and we can do some Vintage Dives.
Aloha
Turtleguy9
Roger