Diving Marine City Boat Ramp

[rickydazla]

I went with a couple of people to dive the wrecks at the DNR ramp in Marine City yesterday and was flatly told by the guy at the booth that there was "Absolutely no diving to be done from the ramp". He also said he was new there but that it was one of the things he had been made clear on. I didn't argue; just turned around and dove further up river. Was a bit disappointed though and I'd still like to do it... Anyone know what time they close or anywhere just upstream that would be willing to let you make an entry?!

 

[Tiny Bubbles]

Hi,

I've never been hasseled for diving there, even when the ramp was attended. But it's probably best to go on a weekday when the weather is miserable. Or in the winter time. This is an active boat ramp, after all.

-Ray

 

[diver_paula]

I agree with Ray in the timing of your dives. Although I haven't dove the Marine City boat ramp I have dove off other ramps in the Detroit area. There are certain places my buddies and I only dive pre-Memorial day and post-Labor day weekends. One because of the number of boaters and two because of the high number of stoopid boaters that don't know what a diver down flag is. It may be legal to dive these locations on Summer weekends but it's not always all that safe!

Me 2 cents.
Paula

 

[Divers Incorporated]

I got a call the other day from a Marine Division Sheriff that was concerned because there was almost a fist fight between a boater and a diver. He was asking if it was one of my divers. Since it wasn't I didn't give it much thought until now.

I agree with Paula about the boaters not knowing what a dive flag is, but I have to jump on the side of boaters when you are diving in a Marina, channel, river or in this case off a boat ramp. The true definition of the dive flag law is that it is a courtesy and if my interpretation is right, only applies if the dive flag is attached to a boat or vessel at least 36 inches above the water. The true dive flag (international blue and white alpha flag) and the recreational dive flag means "divers below stay clear at idle speed" It is legal for a boat to approach a dive flag if they are doing so with a lookout and they have reduced their speed to "the bare minimum necessary for safe navigation." The flag is necessary for another boat to avoid a collision with the parked dive boat, not to keep the divers safe.

The rules of the road are different if you are diving in a restricted waterway... you become the burdened party. If it is not possible for a boat to maneuver to avoid you or your flag due to restrictions in navigation such as, "I have to take my boat out at that ramp," "the canal is less than 100feet wide," or "that is the only path through the body of water that can be safely navigated," then you are really not supposed to be diving there. If you decide to dive there then it is YOUR responsibility to stay clear, not the vessel that is restricted.

I know there can be a lot of arguments but to give you a super simple example, if you were diving in a shipping channel with a flag, would you expect the flag to stop a freighter? Same rules apply. If a freighter was traveling to the boat ramp, it would not be expected to stop but it would be expected to reduce speed. It could run your flag bodily down if it was doing so in a restricted waterway at bare steerageway to avoid damage to the vessel. Another illustration would be the pedestrian trying to cross a freeway. While it illegal for a car to hit that pedestrian, the pedestrian should find another way.

In the case of the boat ramp operator, his decision to keep you out is probably his only solution.

I tend to avoid boat access points and ramps in the summer. I dive the river in the winter mostly.

Safe diving,

Rich

 

[rickydazla]

I got a call the other day from a Marine Division Sheriff that was concerned because there was almost a fist fight between a boater and a diver. He was asking if it was one of my divers. Since it wasn't I didn't give it much thought until now.

Ha! Nice. Wasn't me either, just for the record!

And yeah, agreed my timing could have been better. I didn't anticipate quite as many people tooling around as there was. In the UK we call it Remembrance Day and it's usually a fairly restrained affair...

Regardless, we dove and had a nice time at a spot well away from most of the boating activity - we went off the beach at the northern end of Marine City and found a veritable treasure trove of old junk! It was my first dive in Marine City and I enjoyed it. I'll be back!

 

[rickydazla]

Hi,
[..]
-Ray

... just realised that you are the Ray of the map that I had looked at for info on diving the DNR ramp. That's a real labour of love that you've got there, it's an incredible resource. Seriously, many thanks for the assistance it will doubtless provide for myself and many others in the future.


Rick

 

[diver_paula]

I agree with Paula about the boaters not knowing what a dive flag is, but I have to jump on the side of boaters when you are diving in a Marina, channel, river or in this case off a boat ramp....

Safe diving,

Rich

Kudos! Much better explanation and reasoning than my couple of sentences.

Thanks.
Paual

 

[ComputerJoe]

Definition from the USCG Rules of the Road

"(f) The term "vessel not under command" means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to maneuver as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel. "

experted from Rule 27 (Vessels Not Under Command)

"(e) Whenever the size of a vessel engaged in diving operations makes it impracticable to exhibit all lights and shapes prescribed in paragraph (d) of this Rule, the following shall be exhibited:

Three all-round lights in a vertical line where they can best be seen. The highest and lowest of these lights shall be red and the middle light shall be white;
a rigid replica of the International Code flag "A" not less than 1 meter in height. Measures shall be taken to ensure its all-round visibility. "

The Alpha flag is used on Vessels, not dive floats. I doubt that it would have any meaning on a dive float. Therefore you would not be burdened to avoid collision but neither would the boater. The Red and white flag, under State Law, still means something on a dive float but it is not addressed in the USCG Rules but is open to State interpetation.

I heard a story of a group of divers doing a float dive down the Boardman river through Traverse City. The boaters trying to go upstream to their docks or down stream to the lake were completely confused...what were they to do? Run over the divers or collide with the other boaters? Let's use a little common sense in our activities. The ONLY time I would swim near the launch ramps would be under the ice.

 

[Thunder Bay Minnow]

Personally, I have had great success diving boat ramps and have never been denied access. Though I only use them as a last resort.

Good things to remember.

• Don’t ever argue about paying the access or launch fee. You are using the access site the same as a boater does.
• In all cases I sought out the local authority (ranger, attendant, etc.) and explained my pre and post dive plans and explain that my goal is to stay out of the way of other users of the access. I also explain why I need to use this location (distance to destination, lack of public land, safest entry point,etc) And I have NEVER been denied access.
• I prepare and assemble my gear in the parking lot and place it in the back of my vehicle and get in line like all of the other guys wanting to use the ramp.
• When it is my turn to the ramp, I move my gear to the side of the ramp or on shore area in a pile. Do Not leave it in the middle of the ramp where someone can run over it with a trailer or leave on a dock where it can be a tripping hazard.
• Move the vehicle to the parking area and secure it.
• Return to your equipment and make conversation with the boater that is surly using the ramp now, while you are gearing up. Almost every time they bombard you with a million questions which I see as an opportunity to promote the sport. Explain to them what you are doing and I let them know that as soon as you geared up and in the water you will be on your way. I have NEVER had a boater give me a problem as long as I am making preparation to get under way and not just standing around jawing in what usually is a very busy and congested location.

The worst thing anyone can do it tie up the ramp area for too long a period of time. So have your gear set up and ready to go on before you head to the ramp. I have seen divers show up park in a ramp spot get out and start unloading and assembling on the ramp with a line of boats wanting to go in and come out. Boaters get upset with fellow boaters who take too long on the ramp, how do you think the get with a bunch that tow around one of those silly flags that they have to watch for?

Common sense also has to be exercised. I concur with Joes observation of the Boardman. For divers using South Shore Higgins Lake State Park with all of the boat traffic there is just nuts. I actually saw marine patrol explaining to some divers that they were not using good judgment in diving that particular location. When they were using one of those piece of crap Styrofoam buoys and they took it down with them. It then popped back up in the middle to what seemed to be a boat parade and almost caused an accident when the boat operators were startled by it sudden appearance, of which the marine patrol was one.