Diving incident at Eagles Nest Sink

[LiteHedded]

Surely, you don't see me diving Eagles Nest. Been invited a number of times... still not ready nor qualified. But let's look at the Science. According to this article A diver may last any where from 3 hours to indefinitely before experiencing hypothermia in water between 70 and 80 degrees. And yes, more fat means more warmth. Ever see a skinny manatee?


So, you're suggest that DCS would not be preferable to death? I would contend that 'serious' DCS would be preferable to dying while still warm.

These guys were not morbidly obese nor were they manatees...

Who's inviting you to dive there if you are not qualified?

 

[Storker]

I still remember being told that in an emergency you can burp air at a seal. Isn't that part of standard training in a dry suit?

I've never been taught so, and I think there's a pretty good reason for that. IME that can only work if you're not using a hood with your DS. When I wear my DS, I also wear a hood (given our water temps, it would be complete madness not to), and the hood's neck stuffed into the suit's warmneck. I challenge you to get at your neck seal when you're packed up like that. Particularly if you're also wearing gloves.

Perhaps DS users i N.Fla. don't wear hoods, but if so they're a pretty small subset of DS divers.

 

[PfcAJ]

Btw Pete, I like the chart you linked to.

Exhaustion or unconsciousness: 2-12hrs.

Unconscious on scuba = dead.

 

[RainPilot]

Out of my depth here and hesitate to intrude but...

Yes hypothermia can increase risk DCS but hypothermia has also been associate with increased survival in cold water drowning and is even used therapeutically in some cardiac arrest situations. Might it not have some of the same benefit here?

Obviously an act of desperation.

My understanding:
The water was cold enough to be an issue for long exposures but not cold enough to give any benefit
The benefits are an increase in the time from drowning till irrevocable brain death, in the order of minutes to (in severely cold water and very very rare instances) an hour or two. The time for recovery EVEN IF the support diver somehow telepathically knew there was an issue and grabbed his 2 spare CCR and all the OC gear in the world and went directly to where they were, would still have been too long.

It is my belief that, like with Dave Shaw, there are some dives where surface support is just a friendly face to bring some bits and bobs to you, or let the recovery teams know its time. In these scenarios then any emergency the primary team cant handle becomes fatal regardless of how many support divers you have. Its like the death zone in mountaineering. Base camp is not there to save you they are there to let people know what happened to you.

 

[matt_w]

I think Pete's point was (I am sure he will tell me if I'm wrong) that there are always options to consider. Survival is often about giving yourself options. None of us were there and we will never actually know with any certainty why a functioning rebreather was left behind. From a purely hypothetical standpoint, I would rather be in the basin with my buddy trying to figure out how to finish deco and avoid hypothermia.

If I had a choice, 300 feet down and 1500 feet back I would choose a functioning rebreather over staying dry. Is this a choice these guys had to make? Who knows? I am certain their decisions were a lot more complicated than that.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

I challenge you to get at your neck seal when you're packed up like that. Particularly if you're also wearing gloves.

In life or death situation - pull one glove off and burp neck ring or lift other arm and burp wrist ring with your finger...

 

[lanta]

Dumb question from someone who's only done EN a handful of times: Is it necessary to doff your gear to go past the end of The Pit? Is the restriction that tight?

 

[PfcAJ]

Dumb question from someone who's only done EN a handful of times: Is it necessary to doff your gear to go past the end of The Pit? Is the restriction that tight?

not the pit. I posted a screenshot a few pages ago of it.

While I haven't, plenty of folks have past the revelation space restriction with gear on.

 

[The Chairman]

I think Pete's point was (I am sure he will tell me if I'm wrong) that there are always options to consider. Survival is often about giving yourself options.

Exactly. Without the rebreather they were about out of options. With the rebreather, and a partially flooded drysuit, they might not be all that comfortable, but they would be alive. They certainly didn't have the bail out to accommodate one of them going OC during the dive.

 

[mdb]

This thread continues and that is good. It is not argumentative any more. Just informative.

All divers can learn from such a discussion.

I thank the moderators for being moderate.

Of course we mourn the loss of our fellow divers.

Life is always one step away, auto accident, heart attack, etc.

Many who have posted here are very experienced divers with dives at this location. That is a plus for us all.