Diving, Fitness, Obesity and Personal Rights

[OrangeCountyScuba]

@OrangeCountyScuba I appreciate your reply and I get the sentiment, I really do, but on that note I weigh less than a couple friends of mine who are incredibly fit, why would my weight be more of an issue than theirs. If you go back to my original post you will see that I am very active with no medical issues, I eat well (borderline vegetarian ), just don't lose weight. Is what it is, but I do know that I am a far far safer diver than many I have seen and dove with.

Ok, fair enough. However, I think that you would agree with me generally persons who are overweight/obese are predisposed to have a number of health issue stemming from that. With that in mind, scuba professionals WILL discriminate but we have to because we are the ones in charge of your safety and the safety of the other divers. Stereotyping was not forged out of malicious intent, it is a educated guess that one puts on another person since the general trend has proven it. (I am strictly talking about scuba in this example, please no race stuff in response). In your particular case, I am sure from what you have said that you probably are ok to dive but obviously I could make that assessment accurate without seeing you dive so on so forth. Now, you and many others say that you are more than capable to go diving even with the extra weight, so you should be left alone cause you are doing just fine. Ok, well then if something happens to you and you need to be rescued, I can just say no they didn't want help so I am going to not do anything to help, plus I would not be able to get you out of the water in the first place. Instructors are all about being safe and mitigating problems before they happen, it has been my experience that 9 out of 10 times there has been an incident that I was either directly or indirectly involved with typically dealt with out of shape persons(notice that I didn't say overweight there. It always seems to boil down to fitness, I know skinny guys that are pieces of sh*t and dont exercise in this reality there is no way I would take them diving either. I am an equal opportunity discriminator, especially when it comes to being physically capable of diving.

 

[drrich2]

If health risk concern is a big issue, might have to ban a lot of older divers. We'd see a lot fewer accident/death threads if nobody dove after 50.

If ease of hauling out of the water is a concern, all big people shall be excluded. Yes, fat people like me, but also body builders, the very tall & more normally proportioned (e.g.: 6'6"), etc...

Sounds like we'd better set a minimum size limit on instructors & dive masters since they have to be capable at pulling the divers you deign to let dive out of the water. After all, a 5'2" woman probably won't be pulling a muscular 6'4" man out easily, will she?

Richard.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

A lot of these comments are based on stereotypes and unwarranted assumption, and much borders (if not crosses into) the realm of silly.

Reality check ... the diving industry is small, in comparison to most recreational activities. Start excluding people because they don't fit some model of "fitness", be it due to weight, age, or perception, and you will kill the industry. That ain't going to happen.

Most divers are adults ... therefore they're capable of making their own decisions and managing their own risks. Yes, some will make dumb decisions, and some will get involved in diving accidents ... some will even die. That's life ... the same can be said for every recreational activity. I really don't want someone else deciding for me what recreational activities I can and can't engage in due to their perception of my fitness.

Yes, it's a legitimate concern ... but is that a genie in that bottle or a gremlin? Be careful finding out ... once you start making exclusionary rules, you may not like the after effects. And there are bigger issues, to my concern, in our industry that have a greater impact on diver safety. Like underqualified instructors who can barely dive themselves (but they can quote the class materials sufficient to meet standards). Like an industry that defines "mastery" as being able to mimic an instructor's demonstration once, under controlled conditions while kneeling on the bottom. Like 12-hour classes that tell the student what to do without even attempting to tell them how, or why.

Let's be real ... the majority of divers, regardless of their fitness, are barely capable of being able to rescue themselves, much less someone else ... not due to fitness, but due to the degree of competence the industry considers "acceptable" in order for them to receive a certification. So why pick on a single group, designated as somehow inadequate because of how they look?

Yes, fitness matters ... but competence and good judgment matter more. Let's all try to keep our priorities straight ... I'll pick a fat dive buddy with reasonable skills and a good attitude any day over a fit one with poor skills or a FIGJAM mentality ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[PfcAJ]

If health risk concern is a big issue, might have to ban a lot of older divers. We'd see a lot fewer accident/death threads if nobody dove after 50.

You can't stop getting older. You can control calorie intake.

Choices.

 

[Bob DBF]

If health risk concern is a big issue, might have to ban a lot of older divers. We'd see a lot fewer accident/death threads if nobody dove after 50.

After seeing where the risk increases significantly for heart attacks, you might have to lower that to 40.


Bob

 

[admikar]

@OrangeCountyScuba I appreciate your reply and I get the sentiment, I really do, but on that note I weigh less than a couple friends of mine who are incredibly fit, why would my weight be more of an issue than theirs. If you go back to my original post you will see that I am very active with no medical issues, I eat well (borderline vegetarian ), just don't lose weight. Is what it is, but I do know that I am a far far safer diver than many I have seen and dove with.

First, I want to apologize if I insult you in any way, since I do not really know your body proportions.
All weight is not the same. Try lifting empty oil barrel and hold it for 20 minutes and then get the same amount of weights that fits in your hand, and you'll see the difference. Obese people are generally bulky, and therefore more difficult to handle.
One of the reasons for this prejudicial attitude is self protection. Waivers can be protection,but...... I don't know how system works in US, but there is a feeling that you can sue for anything and everything. Since I'm a pilot I know it almost killed light aircraft industry in US. In my country, if you sue and lose, you pay for ALL expenses, including defendants. So, people around here are much more careful about throwing lawsuits.
Once again, I am not saying that you are not safe to dive with, just trying to offer different point of view.

 

[raftingtigger]

...One thought. My pilot's license requires a medical card signed by an FAA certified physician. That might not be a bad idea for us older divers. I certainly wouldn't object.

The FAA (USA) and the DOT (USA) required a medical certificate from a specially certified examiner for the reasons of PUBLIC SAFETY. Should your pilot or truck driver become incapacitated in flight or on the road quite a few innocent bystanders stand in harms way. In the case of the incapacitated diver this just isn't the case. Yes the buddy(ies) may incur increased risk, and so too can the boat crews - but neither group are innocent bystanders.

If you fly only yourself (Sports and Recreational pilots license) the FAA lets you self certify your health.

Some of you would cringe at diving with some of the people I have to certify as fit to drive commercially (I'm a certified DOT examiner) since they meet the standards, but I wouldn't call them healthy.

You can't stop getting older. You can control calorie intake.
Choices.

If controlling body weight were as simple as "exercise more, eat less" then I would be out of one of my jobs. Excess body fat is a multifactorial chronic medical condition, very much akin to elevated cholesterol, elevated blood pressure, and elevated blood sugar. It has to be managed continuously to decrease the potentially serious health risks these all entail. Managing any of these chronic conditions takes focus, effort, support, sometimes medications, and above all taking ownership of the condition and not letting it OWN you. You also can't tell someone has most of these conditions just by looking at them, but you can see their size - however that doesn't tell you if they just lost 100# and are still losing more.

The more "rules" we put in place to protect us from ourselves, the less freedom we all have and the more liability those who provide us goods and services have to deal with. Some "rules" are needed for the greater good (IMHO pilot and commercial driver physicals, however porous, are examples), but a diver's physical as a requirement for recreational diving (not talking training) isn't among one I feel is needed.

 

[markmud]

Hi all,

I underwent the RSTC physical two weeks ago, and then my work threw me under the health screening bus. I am rather healthy. 6' tall and 177 pounds. The day before both events, I ran two miles in 14 minutes. Heart rate very low. Lung capacity is excellent. Cholesterol not perfect but very good. Blood pressure is OK. Flexibility excellent, and EKG great...

However, I am borderline fat. My BMI, my waist-to-hip ratio, and my body fat are right on, or over, the datum point for fatness.

My point is this--I don't think we should be critical of people who are a little fat, like me. Or fat like many people, who have some blubber around their skeleton (I am slightly marbled--too lean for USDA Select, I am probably USDA Choice, and not fat enough for USDA Prime).

However, seriously obese people, people who can't climb a flight of stairs without panting, people who can't fit in one airline seat, people who are spilling out of everything and over everything, should not be in a position to force rescuers into making a decision that could harm the rescuer in an emergency situation.

If several people can't time the waves and successfully roll you onto the swim step and lash you down for the boat ride home--well maybe you should sign a waiver or not dive. I am advocating honesty and personal responsibility here.

I am thinking degrees--fat verses chronically obese. Fat people are OK. Clinically speaking I am one of them. Dangerously obese is another topic.

markm

 

[Jailer6]

Fat, obese, out of shape, sick, etc.... As divers we are each responsible for our own actions and if you are an instructor, divemaster or a good buddy and you have concern for a fellow diver then say something to them. I would rather have someone upset with me for a legitimate concern (winded walking to the dive site, out of breath getting geared up) then not say anything and then have something happen.
Just my two cents.

 

[WarrenZ]

As a fat diver I try to work out and am running to try to loose weight and I would respect a captain who says I am not able to dive in the conditions the boat is going to. I wouldnt be happy about it and we would have some discussion about what his expectations are but it is his boat and he is responsible for his divers safety. However as the fat bastard who drug another diver back to the boat in 6 foot seas I feel that I am in good enough shape to dive.

If I drown and the only way they can get me back on board is with a winch like a dead tuna then throw the rope around my ankles and winch me on board. While I am hanging from my ankles give me a smack on the ass and see if that brings me back to life. (It worked when I was born.)