Diving, Fitness, Obesity and Personal Rights

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

I didn't see any shore access in Bonaire that I thought was particularly difficult ... especially considering you're carrying at most 10 lbs of lead and one of those oversize beer cans they call scuba tanks down there. I thought we had some challenging exits around here till I went to Canada ... you got to really want to dive to do some of the walks those folks do on a regular basis, and that's with large steel tanks and 30+ lbs of lead ... or in some cases doubles ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I didn't see any shore access in Bonaire that I thought was particularly difficult ... especially considering you're carrying at most 10 lbs of lead and one of those oversize beer cans they call scuba tanks down there. I thought we had some challenging exits around here till I went to Canada ... you got to really want to dive to do some of the walks those folks do on a regular basis, and that's with large steel tanks and 30+ lbs of lead ... or in some cases doubles ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
I never saw anyone with less than 10lbs. Saw plenty around 20 and a few higher.
 
Really? I carry 10 lbs in a full 3mm wetsuit. My ex-wife carries 8. Less in a shortie.

Why would someone need 20 lbs in the tropics? What kind of exposure gear are they wearing?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
BMI is a quick and dirty way to set a limit and decide if more invasive (read expensive) testing is needed. . . . . For someone to use BMI as the final test to see whether you qualify for whatever activity is stupid, but to use BMI as a trigger to go on and get more invasive tests run makes perfect sense to me.
Yes. Well stated. And, that is the point. BMI (or any similar anthropometric marker) alone should not be used as a final determinant for licensure / credentialing, because the real issue is whether the individual can perform whatever functions (e.g. scuba instruction, boat operation) are under consideration, not whether they are 'obese' according to a particular standard of measurement, because there are NO DATA to support such an association. Since Ken mentioned the HSE action with regard to obesity, I am curious: does smoking disqualify someone from functioning as a scuba instructor in the new standards?
 
Colliam7, your last sentence . . .! Priceless
 
Really? I carry 10 lbs in a full 3mm wetsuit. My ex-wife carries 8. Less in a shortie.

Why would someone need 20 lbs in the tropics? What kind of exposure gear are they wearing?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Full 3s with light weight travel BCs. And they weren't small people. I used 12 because 8 is a tad floaty at 750 psi in salt water for me, and I use 4 even weight locations for trim. But I use my normal BC.
 
What is the average BMI for an NFL player?

31.35

So the average pro nfl player, making millions a year, cannot become a scuba instructor (in the UK). Having said that NFL players do seem to have a higher incidence of heart disease. So who knows maybe a BMI under 30 would be a good goal.

For the average person a BMI >30 means 3 years less life and a BMI >40 meant 10 years shorter life span.
I suspect you'll find as much incidence of steroid use that is a factor in the heart disease as you will BMI.
 
Really? I carry 10 lbs in a full 3mm wetsuit. My ex-wife carries 8. Less in a shortie.

Why would someone need 20 lbs in the tropics? What kind of exposure gear are they wearing?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Well, ya never know. Some of those folks down here (Miss. right now) are really cold when it's 70F outside.....Most divers here aren't diving because it's WINTER.....I guess 85-90 air temp. means summer. 63F water temp. is somewhat obscene.
 
Since Ken mentioned the HSE action with regard to obesity, I am curious: does smoking disqualify someone from functioning as a scuba instructor in the new standards?

Smoking does not automatically fail if the diver can pass the fitness/breathing test. But the consequences/smoking related diseases could lead to a failure. In the UK it is illegal to smoke in a place of work.

For GUE smoking is a fail.

It is not the ability to perform the functional aspects of the job that matters to the HSE, it is avoiding death and injury which matters. That means not being so unfit as to just drop dead in the water and being able to provide aid to another diver in the case of need. There also rules which almost completely preclude the one man band instructor by requiring a safety diver.

There are literally thousands of people still walking about the place who would be dead without the improvements in work place safety brought about by the HSE.
 
Smoking does not automatically fail if the diver can pass the fitness/breathing test. But the consequences/smoking related diseases could lead to a failure. In the UK it is illegal to smoke in a place of work. . . . That means not being so unfit as to just drop dead in the water and being able to provide aid to another diver in the case of need. There also rules which almost completely preclude the one man band instructor by requiring a safety diver. There are literally thousands of people still walking about the place who would be dead without the improvements in work place safety brought about by the HSE.
Ken, Thanks for the info. And, I fully understand the focus - preventing death and injury in the workplace. And I am not trying to be critical of HSE in any way. In the US, OSHA has also produced dramatic improvements in workplace safety. However, I reasonably suspect that in the case of both organizations, the vast majority of improvements - in the workplace - have been in accident prevention, not 'healthy lifestyle' promotion.

What concerns me in matters like this (again, not singling out HSE) is a somewhat inconsistent application of 'standards' which, although well-intentioned, are not substantiated by actual data. Using the BMI, for example: it sounded, from your earlier comments, that a BMI above a certain value would produce an automatic fail and denial of a work permit, with no further functional testing available to allow a permit to be issued. The instructor would have to lose weight, or else. Whereas, a history of smoking could lead to further functional testing, which might allow a permit to be issued? Clinically, the point could be made that the adverse health effects of smoking are far greater, more pervasive and insidious, crossing multiple organ systems, than obesity.
kensuf:
t is not the ability to perform the functional aspects of the job that matters to the HSE, it is avoiding death and injury which matters.
And, the fact that the 'ability to perform the functional aspects' somehow is not the primary concern of HSE (and similar organizations) that is the crux of the issue. I will assert, without fear of contradiction, that there are simply no data whatsoever, that justify the use of an anthropometric measurement (like BMI) as a criterion for approving a work permit for scuba instructors. Zip. Zilch. Nada. There might be some general, intuitive, subjective sense that a scuba instructor who is fat and out of shape is a 'heart attack waiting to happen'. [PLEASE, anyone reading this whose BMI is, shall we say, ' generous' - do not take offense. I am simply making a point about the errancy of regulation.]

Personally, I am an antagonist of cigarette smoking (and smoking is not permitted in the workplace in the US, either). I do not think scuba instructors should smoke - it sets a bad example, is unprofessional, etc., etc., etc. Personally, I think scuba instructors should be a role model and exhibit a reasonable level of personal fitness. Personally, I do not think scuba instructors should assume responsibility for the safety of others (students) if there is some reasonable possibility that they will not physically / mentally be able to respond properly in a crisis. And, personally, I am concerned that regulation of work, albeit well-intended, is increasingly - across continents - being established without a legitimate, objective basis. In health care delivery, we are increasingly focused - and forced to be focused, by government regulation - on improving delivery through data-driven practices. In that case, reimbursement is the stick that is being used. And, delivering care on the basis of actual data is a good thing. I think it is equally appropriate and necessary to hold government accountable for data-driven regulation.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

Back
Top Bottom