Diving Doubles?

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Cheetah223:
That's why I was wondering if you can use any wing wtih any backplate. I noticed the plates seem to have a few holes in different positions, and the wings seem to have no holes in the same spots from the little I've examined them, so I was curious if I could get a cheap generic plate and put any wing I wanted to on it, etc.

Just to clarify, right now I'm just trying to figure out what I can and learn all I can about BP/W's - you've all hammered it into my head a few times over that they come out on top when compared to a jacket or back inflate BC, so I'm just trying to learn what I can so I can make an educated decision on what to buy.

Cheetah,

The only thing "standard" about almost all backplates sold is that they will all have atleast one pair of holes in the center channel that are 11" center to center. Why? Because that's the spacing of the band bolts for securing doubles.

Some backplates will have camstrap slots in the center channel for securing a single tank, some will not. If you choose to directly mount a single tank to the plate without a single tank adapter (STA) you will need slots in the plate, and slots or windows in the center panel of the wing.

If you choose to use a STA virtually any wing and any plate will be compatible. Why? because a STA has bolts protruding at 11" centers.

If you'd like call me. 626-799-5078. I'm around the office today. (You might have to try more than once if I don't hear the phone.) I'd be happy to walk you through the basic assembly of a BP&W. It's really simple if you've you have your hands on the goods, and kinda confusing if you never seen it done.


Tobin
 
Cheetah223:
That's why I was wondering if you can use any wing wtih any backplate. I noticed the plates seem to have a few holes in different positions, and the wings seem to have no holes in the same spots from the little I've examined them, so I was curious if I could get a cheap generic plate and put any wing I wanted to on it, etc.

Just to clarify, right now I'm just trying to figure out what I can and learn all I can about BP/W's - you've all hammered it into my head a few times over that they come out on top when compared to a jacket or back inflate BC, so I'm just trying to learn what I can so I can make an educated decision on what to buy.
You should be able to use any with any backplate so long as you are using a Single Tank Adapter with US standard 11" bolt spacing. The problem with mixing brands really only comes into play when you use the slots in the plate for holding the tank. Many STA's have their own slots for the soft tank bands. If the slots in the plate do not line up with the slots in the wing you could have problems. It is reasonable to assume that a plate and a wing from the same company will be made in such a way that everything fits together.

Almost every plate, every wing, and every STA will have the US standard 11" hole spacing.

If you work it from the tank to your back, it fits together like this.

The cylinder is held tight to the STA with "cam" bands, these are the soft webbing bands that you are accustomed to using with a regular BC. The STA has two bolts sticking out of it to bolt it to your backplate.

When you want to attach the STA to your plate you first put the bolts through the holes found on almost every wing made, then the bolts go through the holes in the plate. The end result of this sort of configuration is that the wing gets sandwiched between the STA and the plate. The plate has a channel or bend in it that provides room for the wing nuts to go on the end of the bolts from the STA. Tighten the wing nuts and everything is held in place and you go dive.

Where you can run into problems is if you do not use an STA, then you need to make sure that the slots in the plate itself line up with the slots in the wing since this is where you put the "cam" straps to hold the cylinder in place. Essentially you completely eliminate the STA and the wing is held in place by the same straps that hold the tank on. Some manufacturers have "built in" STA like devices, some of these work well, some are junk. Since you want to be fairly generic I would say you can plan on needing an STA, and with that configuration you should be comfortable mixing the brands between the wing, the plate, and even the STA. The worst thing that would happen if you got an STA but found that you did not need it was that you would have wasted a small amount on that extra piece, and you could sell it on eBay.

Remember, this entire thing only really comes into play when you dive single cylinders with a Back Plate and Wing. If you are diving doubles there is NO need for the STA, the cylinders bolt directly to the plate with the wing sandwiched between.

The OMS harness in the link the Red Head provided is not the worst on the market, but as I said before I like the one piece Hogarthian harness. The harness in the link is somewhere between the one piece and the cushy padded variety.

Mark Vlahos
 
Yes, listen to Mark and Tobin regarding the STA. I could use my Dive Rite BP/W without an STA, but changing the wings for doubles would be a big PITA. All I have to do is loosen two wingnut bolts and slap a wing and plate onto a set of doubles. It is SO easy.
 
Mark Vlahos:
The OMS harness in the link the Red Head provided is not the worst on the market, but as I said before I like the one piece Hogarthian harness. The harness in the link is somewhere between the one piece and the cushy padded variety.

The harness itself is cheap to replace and a SS backplate is worth more than the auction price. Everyone says that a harnness is easy to thread, but I did not find it so at all. Having one already threaded would have been a godsend to someone like me who had never even seen a harness before. And that's where I was when I started. It's still very difficult for me to work the straps through. I almost cried when my TDI instructor took my shoulders apart.

I have the Dive Rite deluxe with the chest strap. I like the chest strap because it stablizes the rig and prevents it shifting and pinching the puppies. :D
 
Thank you all for explaining to the original poster why I told him to just get the STA and forget the rest! :) I didn't want to go the lengthy explanation.

So Cheetah223, if you get the STA, yes you can use any wing, with any backplate. I agree with Redhead, if you are going to do this, get a backplate that is already assembled. It makes life MUCH easier the first time around.

You've heard from Tobin (CoolHardware) who owns DSS and is a very active member of the board. Now you understand why I said he should be on your shortlist to buy from.

Getting the BP/W is going to avoid problems later on down the road you don't even KNOW about yet. Like where do I attach my *XXX*. Since the BP/W is basically 2" webbing, companies make knives, lights, pockets, etc. that all just slide onto 2" webbing. You don't have to worry about compatibility. What if I want to use a scooter? Already solved. Where does the knife go? Solved. Where do I connect my decompression bottles? Done. What about if I want a rebreather? Change wing, DONE.

The other nice thing is that since this stuff is all standardized, you could buy things off EBay for it and you KNOW they'll fit.

Someone mentioned the bands on doubles being 11". They are only that width because the BP is. The band width on doubles are easily changed with just 2 wrenches.


Best of luck on your purchase, and I hope we've answered your questions.
 
A bp/w set bup has more versatility than any bc I have ever seen and is all I ever dive singles or doubles. Will one of your friends with a bp/w set up let you try it in the pool? When looking at back plates I wouldn't get one with a slot for the band bolts if you think you will be getting large heavy steel tanks. I would also consider it a plus if the plate had more than one set of holes on 11" centers as this provides a little more flexibility when mountying the wing and tanks. Hammerhead Scuba has new back plates and single tank adapters at reasonable prices and there is nothing wrong with used if you find what you want. Dive safe.
 
Awesome, thanks a million. I started a thread to ask about diving doubles and I think I learned more about BP/W's lol! Oh well, saves me from making another thread on it. Tha last question I can come up with (after thinking for a number of minutes trying to come up with more questions - what advantages are there to having an aluminum backplate over a stainless, or vice versa? Is it just weight at that point?
 
Otto:
Will one of your friends with a bp/w set up let you try it in the pool?

That's why I was so skeptical about getting a bp/w, I don't know anyone locally who dives them. I have a couple of friends who live in Canada and in Michigan who dive bp/w's, but that doesn't help a ton for trying it out unfortunately :banghead:

Jeckyll: Thanks for the links, it'll definitely help as I'm the kind of person who wants to rip everything apart and put it back together just so I know how it works and where it might fail, if the harnesses are as confusing as everyone makes them seem, having a guide will be priceless!
 
Cheetah223:
Awesome, thanks a million. I started a thread to ask about diving doubles and I think I learned more about BP/W's lol! Oh well, saves me from making another thread on it. Tha last question I can come up with (after thinking for a number of minutes trying to come up with more questions - what advantages are there to having an aluminum backplate over a stainless, or vice versa? Is it just weight at that point?

Yes it is basicaly weight. Some conditions like big heavy steel doubles in warm fresh water can leave the diver overweighted without any extra ballast. Switching to a lightweight plate helps.

One of the key advantages of a BP&W is weight distribution. Unlike a jacket BC which tends to concentrate the weight around your hips and all the buoyancy higher on your torso, a BP&W puts some of the weight up over your buoyant lungs. That's the major advantage trim wise.


Tobin
 

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