Diving DIR as PADI Instructor, ok?

[Hank49]

My question would be, why isn't DIR/GUE grumbling about PADI instructors teaching DIR diving style. If in fact it is turning out higher quality "n00bs", DIR isn't getting any of the credit and PADI is, for using their system. I would be a little pissed. It's like plagiarism.

 

[Don Burke]

My question would be, why isn't DIR/GUE grumbling about PADI instructors teaching DIR diving style. If in fact it is turning out higher quality "n00bs", DIR isn't getting any of the credit and PADI is, for using their system. I would be a little pissed. It's like plagiarism.

GUE is not in competition with PADI.

In other fields, I have have found that the sooner we stop worrying about who gets the credit, the sooner we start making progress. I expect diving to be similar.

In any case, having PADI instructors introducing new divers to DIR may be the best thing that ever happened to GUE.

 

[Kim]

From the little that I know about it I would have to say that Don's last comment seems to be very true. If GUE was actually in the business of making money as a primary objective, they are going about it a very strange way. On the other hand, if their primary motivation is to raise the level of diver skills, they must be jumping for joy at PADI's seeming acceptance of their high standards.

 

[Hank49]

In other fields, I have have found that the sooner we stop worrying about who gets the credit, the sooner we start making progress. I expect diving to be similar.
.

What you say makes sense. But the industry is very market dirven. What if PADI turns out divers who can pass the DIRF course straight away? What if PADI goes the next step and starts teaching all the GUE curriculum?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

If the instructors are doing it as a means to focus on skills, rather than gear, then they are not really teaching DIR anyway ... they're simply teaching skills that have been around for years that DIR has packaged along with a standardized configuration to present a systemized approach to diving.

Many instructors, including some I worked with when I was learning how to be an instructor, teach the standard skills while hovering. One shop in our area has been teaching OW students in BP/W with long hose for years now ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[RiverRat]

What if PADI turns out divers who can pass the DIRF course straight away?

Nothing wrong with that! All good. Safer/better divers right from the start. I was diving a BP/W right after OW classes. I did the 28# lead thing on my knees. I learned some great noob stuff but I learned some crap too. When I got to AOW training soon after I was already diving the BP/W and working on trimming out and getting rid of danglies. I was "hogarthian" and applying hog/DIR principles before I even knew what hogarthian or DIR was. I knew something was wrong and had to fix it. I think more and more divers that want to become "real" divers are starting to catch on. Slowly but surely HOG/DIR or whatever you call it is getting out there.

 

[Don Burke]

What if PADI turns out divers who can pass the DIRF course straight away?

GUE would _love_ to not have to teach DIR-F. The only reason it was created was to get divers good enough to pass Cave 1 or Tech 1.

What if PADI goes the next step and starts teaching all the GUE curriculum?

From what I have seen, the vast majority of instructors in major agencies are headed the other direction. With such a loose QA process, there is virtually no chance that a major agency could keep the quality of instruction high enough to worry GUE. The best they can do is better prepare divers for the GUE courses.

But the industry is very market dirven.

Precisely. Other instructors would go into chapter 7 with the failure rates that GUE instructors thrive on.

Many (in some cases most) people going into DIR-F are expecting not to pass. How long would a PADI/NAUI/YMCA/SSI/SDI instructor last on that basis?

 

[Hank49]

GUE would _love_ to not have to teach DIR-F. The only reason it was created was to get divers good enough to pass Cave 1 or Tech 1.From what I have seen, the vast majority of instructors in major agencies are headed the other direction. With such a loose QA process, there is virtually no chance that a major agency could keep the quality of instruction high enough to worry GUE. The best they can do is better prepare divers for the GUE courses.Precisely. Other instructors would go into chapter 7 with the failure rates that GUE instructors thrive on.

Many (in some cases most) people going into DIR-F are expecting not to pass. How long would a PADI/NAUI/YMCA/SSI/SDI instructor last on that basis?

This is interesting. If there is money to be made in teaching people Cave and Tech, why doesn't the market driven "PADI Juggarnaut" jump in? And I don't understand why GUE would "love to not teach" the DIRF. They charge $400 or so, don't they?
PADI instructors could be specially trianed to teach the same GUE curriculum also, couldn't they? And once they start selling it as a side product, they kind of become the "Walmart of diving". Who could compete? I'm just "mind rotting" on this here and wondering. I had a long weekend in the sun and water and haven't shaken out all the salt...

 

[jonnythan]

This is interesting. If there is money to be made in teaching people Cave and Tech, why doesn't the market driven "PADI Juggarnaut" jump in? And I don't understand why GUE would "love to not teach" the DIRF. They charge $400 or so, don't they?
PADI instructors could be specially trianed to teach the same GUE curriculum also, couldn't they? And once they start selling it as a side product, they kind of become the "Walmart of diving". Who could compete? I'm just "mind rotting" on this here and wondering. I had a long weekend in the sun and water and haven't shaken out all the salt...

GUE makes very little money on the fundies classes.. as I understand it, they make their money on the tech classes. Fundies was created *solely* to make sure divers had the fundamental skills to *begin* tech training, since the instructors were spending too much time in the Tech classes teaching those fundamental skills.

There is money to be made in quality tech training, certainly, but it surely pales in comparison to the volumes of cash PADI takes in by certifying hundreds of thousands of OW divers per year. It's just not enough to justify the effort I'm sure.

 

[Don Burke]

This is interesting. If there is money to be made in teaching people Cave and Tech, why doesn't the market driven "PADI Juggarnaut" jump in?

They do not have the QA to keep the level of instruction up.

And I don't understand why GUE would "love to not teach" the DIRF. They charge $400 or so, don't they?

For ten students, that would be 4000. Three guys splitting four grand (minus the agency cut) for three days of work out of town is not the fast track to riches.

PADI instructors could be specially trianed to teach the same GUE curriculum also, couldn't they?

There is a name for people who meet that standard. They call them "GUE instructors".

And once they start selling it as a side product, they kind of become the "Walmart of diving".

There are things I will not buy at WallyWorld. On volume items the retailer has no control on the quality of, they have a big advantage.

Would you get an engine replaced at WalMart?

Would you buy an electric guitar there?

How about a wireline trolling rig?

How about a drill press?

Who could compete?

GUE is in a niche that the major agencies would have trouble fitting into, assuming they could get in at all.

I'm just "mind rotting" on this here and wondering. I had a long weekend in the sun and water and haven't shaken out all the salt...