Diving Accident, Self-Responsibility and Balance

[chillyinCanada]

Thea you recently said: "Thinking about this (and yes, I still am, a lot) it seems like I was having a bit of trouble breathing as soon as we descended, but blamed it on the weight belt being to tight. Even though in reality, it wasn't."

Perhaps I missed something in an earlier post, please correct me in that case. In the meantime, my reading of your words above have left me wondering whether your BCD was a bad fit and too tight for you.(cumberbund, straps, clips etc). This may not have been immediately apparent to you because your shoulder straps had not yet been tightened up. What do you think/recall about this as a potential starting point of your breathing feeling tight instead of it being what you thought of as your weight belt being too tight?

I note you've read "The Last Dive" twice. May I recommend a book that could be more beneficial to you at your stage of development as a diver. "Diver Down"

Thanks for sharing with us.

 

[Thea Strassburg]

Thea -

Don't ever worry about slowing the dive group down getting into the water. It's one thing if you were talking on your cell phone or trying to take pictures of the dive captain, it's quite another if you are taking your time going through your equipment and your buddies, checking and double checking that everything is correct. No real diver is ever going to hold anything against you if you're taking time doing your checks, real divers understand the importance of it and while they are waiting for you they are probably eyeing your equipment watching you check it, doing their own mental/visual check out, this is what a real diver does. Don't ever let yourself be rushed.

Secondly, if you turn the corner and start diving with a dive buddy, you will have a buddy who is checking your equipment while you are checking theirs.

Thirdly in regard to your weight belt you should see about learning the way that you can twist your belt while putting each weight on it, this prevents your individual weights from moving around on the belt from one side to the other, doing this you can arrange your individual weights so they are distributed on each of your hips and equally balances and not have to worry about them moving. When a dive master or boat crew hands me a weight belt with the weights just strung on them with no twists, I will take the time it takes to take the weights off and re-string it correctly.

It looks like this or a variation of it

I have never seen or heard of this before. It makes perfect sense. Would this then keep the belt itself from slipping around my waist? I was diving sideways, essentially, for a good 15 minutes before I realized the belt had slipped all its weight onto my left hip. Getting a good pic or video is really hard, sideways (insert self- sarcasm here.) This just gets worse and worse doesn't it.

 

[chillyinCanada]

It doesn't keep a weight belt from slipping if it isn't properly tightened but it does keep the weights from slipping around and changing your carefully chosen distribution on hips and/or back. Don't be embarrassed you've not seen that before, someone showed each of us at one point in time. For obvious reasons, dive ops rarely show it because they are the ones changing the weights off their divers belts every dive or so. When I still used a weight belt, I had my own and took it with me on my trips. That way I could get the weights distributed to my comfort, put the "knot" keeper in place and even more importantly, knew I could rely on the buckle. My weight belt has a metal buckle with nice strong teeth. Then my weight belt was set for the rest of the dive trip and I was the only one who used it.

(Now I dive integrated weights BCD)

Also, it was very common for me to do my initial descent and at depth, whilst horizontal face down, tighten my belt before carrying on with the dive. My instructor had instilled that in me at some point.

 

[MAKO Spearguns]

I have never seen or heard of this before. It makes perfect sense. Would this then keep the belt itself from slipping around my waist? I was diving sideways, essentially, for a good 15 minutes before I realized the belt had slipped all its weight onto my left hip. Getting a good pic or video is really hard, sideways (insert self- sarcasm here.) This just gets worse and worse doesn't it.

One way to keep a weight belt from slipping around is to use an elastic rubber belt. They are an overwhelming favorite in the freedive community and just might be catching on with the scuba crowd as well.

A rubber belt grips your body well, the elasticity helps to keep it from shifting up or down and also compensates for any suit compression. This helps to keep the weights stabilized on the belt too. One of the major benefits is that the belt will be much less likely to fall off your butt, even if you do not have an "hour glass" shape.

Edit: This elasticity also removes the need to tighten the belt when you have descended and the suit has compressed (which can be a major issue when wearing a 5 or 7 mm suit, particularly if it is a 2-piece suit, with a double layer of neoprene over your torso).

MAKO Spearguns offers a rubber belt which has a quick release buckle that may "look" like it is not quick release, but it is. If you are curious, take a look at the video on the link to see how it can be ditched with just one pull with one hand.

http://www.makospearguns.com/Freedive-Weight-Belt-p/mfdwb.htm

 

[TSandM]

I agree -- the rubber belts are excellent.

 

[doctormike]

So am I correct in summarizing your point as follows? Sorry, I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but I just want to understand:

1) Fight or flight (FOF) is an inevitable reaction to a significant stressor, in this case the presumed episode of EIB.

2) FOF then caused her to lose the ability to perform procedures that she had previously been able to do.

3) This loss of ability was inevitable given the FOF, and there was nothing that could have stopped it, making her need for rescue also inevitable.

Well, in the cinema example, because the emergency exit is designed to be consistent with the fight or flight response (i.e. let's push the door open and let's get the f-out of here) the door design combined with the ACTH, adrenaline, noradrenaline is quite conducive to self-rescue.

Underwater the ACTH, adrenaline, noradrenaline help, but given that the tools we have seem to conflict with our brain primitive coding ability to operate them, we need someone else to activate them for us.

Had it not been for the buddy system and the OW environment, despite the boost/kick from ACTH, adrenaline, noradrenaline... Thea could have easily drowned.

BUT after breaking the surface had she found something to grab and hold onto, she would have completed her self-rescue.

If that would have been enough without O2 and broncodilators for her to stay alive thereafter, you'd need to ask a Doctor.

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk

Thanks for the interesting discussion of ACTH, adrenaline, noradrenaline, and the legal sequelae of the Cocoanut Grove nightclub fire of 1942.

Now, could you please answer my question? That is, have I correctly summarized your position with those three points above? And if not, please tell me where I have it wrong...

Here, I'll simplify what I think you are trying to say:

EIB -> FOF -> inability to drop weight belt or inflate BC -> need for rescue.

Is this correct?

 

[Peter69_56]

You can also use a spring loaded buckle which I use. I also use a belt with pouches rather than a straight belt, thus the weights cant move about and it can also take smaller weights for more accurate weighting rather than stepping weight by 3 lb blocks (I also have 2 and 1 lb blocks)

similar to this one http://dipndive.com/innovative-weight-belt-buckles-stainless-steel-depth-compensating

and similar to this one http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Oceanic-Deluxe-Scuba-Dive-Weight-Belt-Red-Large-NEW-/290950895626?pt=AU_Scuba_Diving_Snorkelling&hash=item43be06580a

And yes the twist in the belt is a good trick if you use a flat belt. It also prevents losing weights if you take off your belt while in the water to hand it up to the boat crew and find you have the buckle end and not the other end and then watch the weight slide off into the abyss.

 

[Thea Strassburg]

One way to keep a weight belt from slipping around is to use an elastic rubber belt. They are an overwhelming favorite in the freedive community and just might be catching on with the scuba crowd as well.

A rubber belt grips your body well, the elasticity helps to keep it from shifting up or down and also compensates for any suit compression. This helps to keep the weights stabilized on the belt too. One of the major benefits is that the belt will be much less likely to fall off your butt, even if you do not have an "hour glass" shape.

Edit: This elasticity also removes the need to tighten the belt when you have descended and the suit has compressed (which can be a major issue when wearing a 5 or 7 mm suit, particularly if it is a 2-piece suit, with a double layer of neoprene over your torso).

MAKO Spearguns offers a rubber belt which has a quick release buckle that may "look" like it is not quick release, but it is. If you are curious, take a look at the video on the link to see how it can be ditched with just one pull with one hand.

http://www.makospearguns.com/Freedive-Weight-Belt-p/mfdwb.htm

Likely more easily packed as well. Sold, thank you.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

• Pre-dive check? What is that? KIDDING! Before every dive vacation, I plan to review the steps, write them down on a note pad as a list, then take the notepad with me, and precisely follow every step to ensure the equipment is in good working order before getting in the water.​

• :lol: you aren't alone there! :blush: I have to admit I have been lax on occasion as well!
  

  
  The only time I rented a reg from my dive shop is when the dive operation posted on it's site that we should "consider renting your own equipment because ours is not reliable". I swear to the heavens, that is EXACTLY what the site said!

  scarey thought if they don't have confidence in their gear Well you are effectively renting gear every time you dive as I read it. Renting from your local dive shop or the dive operator at the site you are diving. IMHO it is better to have your own gear. Nothing is as comfortable as having your own gear and getting it set the way you want it! New gear involves task loading and you are doing that to yourself every time you dive! You really convey a passion for diving in your posts. Once you get your medical clearance that passion and your safety are worth the cost of buying your own gear. I will talk about that more in a bit.
  
  

  
  My "pre-dive" check consisted of asking the DM as I checked in if he would double check my equipment since I had not dived in 8 months.
  
  I put my weight belt on, but the staff did everything else. And not just for me, but also for the other 3 divers and the Discovery divers as well. I realized once I started the dive, my shoulder straps were not tightened, the DM noticed me and swam over and tightened them for me. But, I did not do any kind of pre-dive check except looking at the O2 gauge.

  
  I confess I hate it when the DM puts my gear together. I have my own system and it puts me off. I still check to make sure it is the way I want it. :blush: the thing that makes me most adamant about setting up my own gear.. My first tropical dive.. first time someone else set up my gear I splashed without checking my gauge (I let the DM's rush me.. my fault). At that time I had a computer that had to be turned on one the surface so I wound up on the bottom at 24M with a blank screen!
  
  

  
  I remember wondering why my weight belt was so tight it was constricting my breathing, but I could move the weights when they slipped to one side. That was confusing.

  
  OMG I don't want to come off like I am trying to seel you gear.. I don't sell gear and am not affiliated with anyone who does. I like my integrated weight system in my BCD. I don't have to wear a weight belt and I HATE being off balance like you describe here. I find trying to maintain trim with unequal weight distribution makes me work harder and therefor breath harder going through more gas. I just bring my empty weight pockets an get the weights from the outfit I am diving with.
  
  

  
  I don't rent equipment because, the time I did it was so bulky and took up so much space in our luggage. Thinking about this (and yes, I still am, a lot) it seems like I was having a bit of trouble breathing as soon as we descended, but blamed it on the weight belt being to tight. Even though in reality, it wasn't.

  
  My first BCD was a jacket style and turned out to be too small with not enough lift. That put too much pressure on my diaphragm and ribcage which made breathing harder. This was especially noticeable on the surface as it didn't have enough lift. That meant I always felt out of breath.. like I couldn't breathe on the surface. I wonder if that had any part in your difficulty
  
  
  

  
  bowlofpetunias. Not sure how the equipment would affect the dive as long as my air was flowing though, more research to do before all the crankies start fussing at me (I appreciate the crankies though, just posting here shows there concern for safety and passion for diving. I have learned a lot from every single post.)

  
  Actually regs can be "tuned" light or heavy. Typically an occy is tuned heavy so it doesn't freeflow and the reg you use is tuned lighter. I think I mentioned in my earlier post my "school reg" was very badly tuned making it hard for me to breathe off it. I thought it was my discomfort until I breathed a properly tuned reg. Having your own tuned the way you like really makes diving much less of a struggle and much more fun! I would suggest having your own BCD and regs would be a good idea. You already have the mask and fins. To tell the truth I would be more inclined to rent fins than count on rental regs.
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  I have never seen or heard of this before. It makes perfect sense. Would this then keep the belt itself from slipping around my waist? I was diving sideways, essentially, for a good 15 minutes before I realized the belt had slipped all its weight onto my left hip. Getting a good pic or video is really hard, sideways (insert self- sarcasm here.) This just gets worse and worse doesn't it.

It is also going to contribute to more difficulty breathing when you are struggling like that. I personally prefer integrated weights rather than the pressure around my middle of the weight belt.

 

[MAKO Spearguns]

It is also going to contribute to more difficulty breathing when you are struggling like that. I personally prefer integrated weights rather than the pressure around my middle of the weight belt.

Hope this is not going off topic or sounding too promotional, but that is one of the problems with a typical nylon belt. It often needs to be tight so it is stable, and it must be worn above the hips or it will simply fall (depending on your body shape of course).

A rubber belt can (and probably should) be worn LOW, so that it is NOT interfering with breathing. You want to be able to "belly breathe" so you want the belt low on your hips.

Unrestricted breathing is absolutely critical to freedivers and for SCUBA divers, the cummerbund or waist strap of the BC or harness is enough of an issue without adding a tight weight belt to the mix.

In this video, the (free) diver shows the correct position for an elastic belt, so that it does not hinder breathing.

[video=youtube_share;XwA8DL6-Ya0]http://youtu.be/XwA8DL6-Ya0[/video]