Divers lose boat, no pilot left aboard - Florida

[DandyDon]

I don't care to list credentials. If you doubt the accuracy of what I say, please do your own due diligence and report back with your findings. It is healthy to have information from independent sources. I would appreciate having you corroborate or debunk what I have posted with the results of your research.

Ok, well, thanks for your comprehensive & courteous reply. Sorry if mine seemed rude. I'm just not known for my tact.

PLB signals go to an international rescue agency. The signal tells them the serial number of the unit that was triggered. The agency then tries to contact the people that the owner of the PLB listed on their profile, if it was properly filled out. If the contacts indicate that the PLB owner was in fact in the indicated area & possibly in trouble, then a request for action goes out to the local authorities. If repeated attempts to contact the listed people fail, then extended delays can be encountered.

Yes, I understand that. I do check my registration now & then to ensure I have correct contacts & numbers listed. I hope that I never have to use it, but if I do and US resources delay my rescue, I hope they're prepared for me or my surviving kin to take action.

Depending on where you are in the world, the quality of the response can vary greatly. If you are off the coast of a third world country, the local navy is not likely to want to expend a lot of resources looking for you.

Yep, outside of the US, resources may not be as helpful. We can only hope that once NOAA relays information that my kin and my embassy can exert enough encouragement to come look for me before my battery is exhausted or local wildlife gets to me.

If you doubt what I say, get a plb, fill out bogus contact information in your profile & set the thing off to see what happens.

I don't think anyone is going to do that, certainly hope not, but I believe you.

As for DSC, AIS, etc, the local weekend warriors will likely ignore any signal you send. The USCG monitors those signals & normally responds promptly. Commercial vessels in the area will typically relay information on signals received that they can't respond to themselves. Normally, they don't respond themselves.

Whichever one chooses to carry, it'll be a lot better than nothing. I like my PLB also being good for using in an emergency on a hike or a backroad beyond cell range. Things get different quickly as you travel the West.

If you are outside VHF range of land & commercial vessels, then the PLB would be the necessary choice. I don't dive that far out, so I don't carry one. The needs of others may vary.

I wish our friend Cameron had carried one of the above when he went missing off of Cozumel. He wasn't far out either, but either got swept away or sunk by a flooded scuba scooter (I forget what they call those), but he didn't so now we'll never know unless his gear beaches somewhere and is identified.

I also hope you'll offer input on that forum as we discuss the devices there.

I hope these reckless spear hunters start carrying some device, but human nature doesn't seem to go that way.

 

[Scraps]

If repeated attempts to contact the listed people fail, then extended delays can be encountered

Not necessarily. Unanswered calls to the registrant’s number are considered a factor in correlating 406 EPIRBs to actual distress situations and elevating the SAR posture, especially if it can be ascertained that the registrant may have been in the area from which the signal was sent.

But your larger point is valid. At least when I was in the Coast Guard, an EPIRB by itself would not prompt a launch. It would prompt efforts to gather more information, and that takes time. That’s why, even with a PLB, it’s important for someone ashore to know where you’re going and when you should return. An overdue report combined with an activated EPIRB will get action.

 

[Scraps]

If you doubt what I say, get a plb, fill out bogus contact information in your profile & s

What will happen is you can face civil action for non-distress activation of the PLB. (I know you were not seriously suggesting this, but I want to make everyone else does, too.)

 

[Belzelbub]

PLB signals go to an international rescue agency. The signal tells them the serial number of the unit that was triggered. The agency then tries to contact the people that the owner of the PLB listed on their profile, if it was properly filled out. If the contacts indicate that the PLB owner was in fact in the indicated area & possibly in trouble, then a request for action goes out to the local authorities. If repeated attempts to contact the listed people fail, then extended delays can be encountered. Depending on where you are in the world, the quality of the response can vary greatly. If you are off the coast of a third world country, the local navy is not likely to want to expend a lot of resources looking for you. If you doubt what I say, get a plb, fill out bogus contact information in your profile & set the thing off to see what happens.

I've done that, well apart from the bogus information part. Filled out the information on my EPIRB, receive my sticker every couple of years. I was actually contacted once when my EPIRB was activating. They contacted me quickly. In this case, it was a false alarm. If you fill out the contact information, and don't include good information, that's your fault, not the fault of the device.

I will admit that their usefulness may be less in certain countries, but it's still better than having nothing.

Regarding your challenge for reports not coming from the manufacturers, here's a few local stories. Problem is that these cases often end with a good outcome, so it's not always front page news as that's not what sells. Certainly not as interesting a story as the 4 football players who went out without one several years back. Heard from some who new one, that the boat owner in that case had just learned about EPIRBs, and was planning on ordering one. Unfortunately, they went out that weekend without having it.

U.S. Coast Guard rescues 5 from capsized boat

Coast Guard rescues man after boat capsizes 20 miles west of Spring Hill

Coast Guard Rescues 3 After Fishing Boat Sinks | Tampa Bay Reporter (This one has a pretty detailed timeline down to the minute. I count the response time from EPIRB activation to location as under two hours. Nowhere near 5 days.

 

[DandyDon]

Regarding your challenge for reports not coming from the manufacturers, here's a few local stories.

Well, those are stories about boaters and EPIRBs. (One of them said "an open port hole was to blame for the ship capsizing." Just Wow!) We're discussing divers carrying smaller PLBs in dive canisters on their persons. ACR has dozens of stories they've collected from customers who survived because of the PLBs, but none about divers yet. When a PLB is used, the battery has to be replaced, but PLB will instead replace those with free, new units for sending them in with their stories. I've heard that they have the spent unit collection on a trophy wall with the stories. I can only guess that diving with PLBs was not popular when dive canisters cost $350 on top of the $300 or so for the PLB, that was my reason then, but now we can get dive canisters for $100. Or find a used dive camera case big enough and replace the o-ring.

I can understand not launching planes immediately and taking time to make phone calls as 90% of PLB activations are false alarms. I hope the Coast Guard does respond in a few hours if no one answers any number as a PLB only has a 24 hour battery, and besides - divers need to be saved the first day.

Here is the collection of survivor stories, many of them from boaters, some of which did use smaller PLBs, and I don't think any of them had to wait days: Specialized in emergency beacons for all outdoor activities - ACR ARTEX

 

[PBcatfish]

...
Here is the collection of survivor stories, many of them from boaters, some of which did use smaller PLBs, and I don't think any of them had to wait days: Specialized in emergency beacons for all outdoor activities - ACR ARTEX

Yes, the manufacturer's website lists stories of incidents where their product did as it was advertised to do. I am in contact with a lot of cruising yachtsmen who have EPIRBS on board. I have received a very mixed bag of reports from those people, regarding their success in obtaining a useful response after activation. The manufacturer is, by definition, an "interested party", who has reason to not report less than favorable incidents. The end users I have spoken with seem to be equally happy to share good stories as well as bad. There is a difference between advertising, balanced reporting & full/complete information.

If you have your information properly on file & if your contact people answer promptly & you are in US waters, the response to a PLB activation should typically be a small number of hours.

Unfortunately, not all PLB owners keep up their profiles to reflect new cell phone numbers, people who have moved, or other changing details. If you list a home number as a contact & Aunt Jane is out shopping for groceries when the call comes in, then oops. Also, if you do not let your listed contact people know that you are going to be out in a particular area, that can be a snag. These details are not well advertised by the manufacturer.

When someone goes overboard & activates an AIS stick or hits a DSC button, that signal hits the mother ship in less than a minute, usually while the MOB is still in sight. The system also points the mother ship to the MOB's exact location immediately and continues to do so. In my experience, the MOB is usually back on board in less than 5 minutes when those devices are used properly & the mother ship does the pick up.

A diver that is separated from his dive boat is not likely to be more than a few miles away from the mother ship. That should be well within range of a DSC or AIS device. The fast response time is why they are my preference in a diving application. In the case of a diver that left an empty boat behind, he would need to have his signal picked up by a nearby boat or the USCG. In the example of a DSC equipped VHF, the diver can make a voice call on 16 to ask for help, as well as pinging his location in a DSC distress call. Voice calls are usually responded to by all boats that have their radios on, even recreational boaters that don't know how to use DSC.

As for items like Spot Trackers, they normally ping your location every 10 minutes & leave a breadcrumb trail that can be followed by a pick up boat. If you are diving with a float, one could be attached there & if you are not heard from in a longer period of time than a dive should take, then a person watching the breadcrumb trail could call out the cavalry for you. That is another option, but it requires a spotter to be watching a feed from a website. Spot Trackers use cheap, user-replaceable batteries that normally last for a day or two of use.

By the way, I'm not bashing ACR as a brand. They make AIS sticks as well as PLBs, EPIRBs, etc. I'm just commenting on the suitability of a particular technology in a narrow range of use.

 

[PBcatfish]

Ok, well, thanks for your comprehensive & courteous reply. Sorry if mine seemed rude. I'm just not known for my tact.
.

No hard feelings. Thanks for the clarification. I can be that way sometimes too.

 

[DandyDon]

If you have your information properly on file & if your contact people answer promptly & you are in US waters, the response to a PLB activation should typically be a small number of hours.

I do check my registration information and update as needed. If I don't answer my phone because I'm lost, my daughter doesn't answer, then my brother doesn't - I'd hope that three numbers is enough to start looking. At any rate, much better than nothing.

 

[Belzelbub]

Well, those are stories about boaters and EPIRBs. (One of them said "an open port hole was to blame for the ship capsizing." Just Wow!) We're discussing divers carrying smaller PLBs in dive canisters on their persons.

True, but PLBs and EPIRBs aren't very different. There are a couple of key differences. PLBs are assigned to an individual, EPIRBs to a vessel. PLBs usually have smaller batteries compared to EPIRBS. PLBs usually require the user to hold onto them for best transmission, while EPIRBs can float unaided.

They both use the same frequency, that gets monitored by the same organization.

It's definitely better to have something with you. Whether it's a PLB, VHF, or something else.

BTW. The open porthole reminded me of this from several years ago. IIRC, the leading theory involved a deck cover that came loose and allowed water to go directly into the bilge, instead of out the scuppers. I'm not sure if that was the final cause or not. Involves divers. First portion of the video is the dive, the real exitement starts at around 4:50.

 

[DandyDon]

In most drifting divers incidents, the boat captain realizes that he is missing a diver and alerted the Coasties. I think that would trump unanswered phones with a PLB pinging the system from the area. Of course, there are many others not so, like the divers in post #1.