Divers Down watch out!

[ScubaSteve]

Ever heard of HealthGrades?
........ I want someone who does the things mentioned above, and most good DM's do these things according to experienced divers. If that's considered babysiting than that's what me and my wife need until we get more experience.

First of all, you are laying so much crap and blame on the DM it is ridiculous. I agree that the DM COULD have acted the way you wanted them to. I so bet you they WOULD have if you had talked to them on the boat. Instead you see the opportunity to come onto a board and try to pass YOUR errors and shortcomings as a diver onto her. It did ot work. You made the mistakes here.

For next time, tell the dive shop what you expect while booking and ypu may ber charged more for a dedicated DM but you will be happier.


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[krbailey]

As I new diver, I can understand some of the OP's issues. If I am paying for a DM, whether it's by my choosing or as part of the dive price (when dive op or local regs require), I am paying for their expertise and judgement. As such, when I relate my experience level to a DM (newly certified - less than 50 dives), I don't expect them to lead me through overhead environments or take me 90'. Granted, I should know better, but there are many "gray areas" and I am paying them because I'm not an experienced diver with many dives to base my actions on and need to rely on someone with better judgement in certain situations.

From a paying customer point-of-view, I expect certain things. The attitude of "Things Happen" isn't acceptable to me.

(Hey, my check bounced. I'll get the money in the bank as soon as I can. Things happen!)

If I tell you what equipment I need in which sizes, I expect it to be available unless you inform me otherwise.

I expect the boat to be in good repair with a well thought out plan in case of mechanical breakdown. "Things Happen" quite often - so plan for them.

I'm an inexperienced diver and I let you know this. I rely on a paid staff not to lead me into a dangerous situation for which I am not qualified. I'll make enough mistakes of my own accord, of which I am responsible.

Just my opinion.

 

[Thalassamania]

As I new diver, I can understand some of the OP's issues. If I am paying for a DM, whether it's by my choosing or as part of the dive price (when dive op or local regs require), I am paying for their expertise and judgement. As such, when I relate my experience level to a DM (newly certified - less than 50 dives), I don't expect them to lead me through overhead environments or take me 90'. Granted, I should know better, but there are many "gray areas" and I am paying them because I'm not an experienced diver with many dives to base my actions on and need to rely on someone with better judgement in certain situations.

From a paying customer point-of-view, I expect certain things. The attitude of "Things Happen" isn't acceptable to me.

(Hey, my check bounced. I'll get the money in the bank as soon as I can. Things happen!)

If I tell you what equipment I need in which sizes, I expect it to be available unless you inform me otherwise.

I expect the boat to be in good repair with a well thought out plan in case of mechanical breakdown. "Things Happen" quite often - so plan for them.

I'm an inexperienced diver and I let you know this. I rely on a paid staff not to lead me into a dangerous situation for which I am not qualified. I'll make enough mistakes of my own accord, of which I am responsible.

Just my opinion.

I wonder where the OP (and KRBailey for that matter) got his expectations as to what the role of the DM should be? It's a good thing that the operator was not California style (DM on the boat never gets wet) or North Eastern (DM? What DM? Hey, I'm just a taxi, have a good dive).

 

[krbailey]

My idea of what a DM is may very well be wrong(My inexperience showing again!). My thinking is if a DM is required by local regs or dive op regs, there must be some valid reason behind it (am I being naive?). I would think it would have to do with diver safety issues/insurance liability/special considerations specific to the dive areas where they would want someone with experience to be in charge of a group.

 

[Thalassamania]

My idea of what a DM is may very well be wrong(My inexperience showing again!). My thinking is if a DM is required by local regs or dive op regs, there must be some valid reason behind it (am I being naive?). I would think it would have to do with diver safety issues/insurance liability/special considerations specific to the dive areas where they would want someone with experience to be in charge of a group.

There are, in some places, either voluntary standards (like the ones were are currently through developing through REEF, for Hawai'i) or regulations (like park requirements for a guide) that specify DMs in the water with divers ... but that is not (as far as I know) an industry wide practice or an insurance requirement, etc. It is just a custom that has come about in resort areas as a result of the reducted abilities of entry level divers. DMs in California generally stay on the deck. DMs to not exist on most dive boats in the North East. If you are traveling somewhere and you feel that you need the extra consideration of leadership level personnel looking after some aspects of your dive, I'd recommend that you say so, in no uncertain terms.

 

[krbailey]

There are, in some places, either voluntary standards (like the ones were are currently through developing through REEF, for Hawai'i) or regulations (like park requirements for a guide) that specify DMs in the water with divers ... but that is not (as far as I know) an industry wide practice or an insurance requirement, etc. It is just a custom that has come about in resort areas as a result of the reducted abilities of entry level divers. DMs in California generally stay on the deck. DMs to not exist on most dive boats in the North East. If you are traveling somewhere and you feel that you need the extra consideration of leadership level personnel looking after some aspects of your dive, I'd recommend that you say so, in no uncertain terms.

Thanks for the info. I certainly relied on my DM's way too much in the past. With no DM in the FL keys last month, it was a good learning experience. I planned my dives much more thoroughly and modified the standard dive plan as the trip progressed to take into account things I learned on previous dives. I was much more conservative on this trip than I had been on other "resort" dives with a DM that I have done. Consequently I felt more confident in my abilities and much more in tune with my limitations.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Note "you" is directed not at any specific person in the following!!!!

Actually the role of the DM unless specfically contracted to be responsible for your safety and develop the actual dive plan is of a guide. They are not there to make sure you have all your gear, have enough air, are able to handle the conditions of the dive, know when to surface, or how to communicate with your buddy. These are all your responsibility.

In the Keys for example the DM does not get in the water. He/she will give you depth, current if any, when to be back on the boat, and in what direction things may be found. If properly trained this is all you need to know. When they hand you things, check to be sure your air is on(they had better not touch mine by the way), or ask if you need anything this is above and beyond what they are required to do. There is no insurance requirement that they be with you. The op or location may require it so that you do not tear up the coral, touch things you should not, or do something real stupid like follow the pretty fish to 150 feet.

But if you expect them to monitor your air supply, your depth, decide when the dive is over for you, or take care of your buddy who can't equalize or just sucked down his tank in 15 minutes, so you can finish the dive you are wrong. There are certain sites where it is beneficial to have a DM along to point out hazards or guide in a current as in Cozumel.But again, if you cannot do the dive without a DM due to depths, currents, visibility, or lack of experience in that type of diving then DO NOT DO THE DIVE!

If you need a DM because navigating the site is tricky that's fine. And as for them leading you to 90 feet after you tell them that is beyond your training or comfort level you are under NO OBLIGATION to follow them there. Level off at 60 and follow from above or call the dive. But be honest with them. Do not expect a DM or Captain to change the dive plan if there are 2 ow and 8 advanced or higher on the boat. Some will say I did not know what the plan was. This is pure BS. If one has time to get on the boat and stow your gear you have time to ask what the maximum depth will be, what the current will be like, and other info. At that time the diver needs to make a decision as to whether you can do the dive or not.

Believe me a DM and everyone else on the boat would rather the diver do that than get to the site, have a problem and shorten the dive for everyone, or have an issue and not say anything until it's time to bash the op on here because of a lack of training and experience.

BTW Jenny if I ever get to Cayman I want you as my DM/Guide! Heck if my wife says it's ok, will you be my girlfriend as well?! That'll never happen but I think you know UDM Aquatic Services is behind you 100%. In fact PM me a website and I'll link to it from mine as a recommended op for my students! In fact I'd be pretty safe, I think, in saying an SEI trained diver would have no issues with your style at all!

 

[krbailey]

Thanks Jim! Apparently my perception of a DM was way off. I got the impression from your post that you are an instructor. If so, could you PM with your op details. I've been looking to advance my training and there aren't many choices in Western PA.

 

[SCUBAedu]

So you had a bad day in Grand Cayman, starting with the gear, then the battery so lets just pick one person to blame it all on. The DM who was just doing her job.

First time to Grand Cayman? My guess is yes, and you dove on the west side since that is where the cruise ships anchor. If you took off from Divers Down dock, then every wall site is pretty much a 5-10 minute ride. All the sites in Grand Cayman are close to shore. If you had a specific site in mind, why didn't you tell her? Last time I checked, mind reading was not part of a dive masters job.

Lost your buddy? WHY?! You're a terrible buddy! Be glad that Jenny was there to safely return her to the boat you ungrateful ingrate! It should have been YOU to take her to the boat if she was having trouble. She was YOUR BUDDY.

Tank at 0 psi?! UNBELIEVABLE that you would actually blame the DM for your lack of responsibility! Who in the hell was your instructor? Didn't they teach you that once you become certified that it's your responsibility to check your air and check it often?

No one forced you to 115 feet, if you're uncomfortable diving at that depth, you should have ascended to a level where you were comfortable and where you can still see your guide!

The DM is not there to hold your hand, check your air, and keep track of your depth and your buddy. THAT IS YOUR JOB! The DM/boat captains job is to drive the boat and guide the dive. Sounds like that is exactly what she did.

I guess I shouldn't be so surprised since you don't even own your own gear. Scuba gear is life support equipment! If having proper fitting gear is that important to you, THEN GET SOME! Rental gear is rental gear. Not the worst, but certainly not as good as owning your own.

Of course its Jennys fault that the turtle, the spotted eagle ray and the green moray were a no show.

Ive been on boats when the battery has died out on the sea with me on it! Be glad you were on dry land and didnt miss your ship!

Here's what really happened. You had a late start and you knew you had to get back to your ship, started stressing out because of the gear and the boat battery and took it out on this poor DM! Shame on you!

I have been to Grand Cayman several times in the last few years and I have been diving exclusively with Divers Down and their extraordinary staff. Ive had the privilege of having Jenny on my boat on many different occasions not only is she one hell of a dive guide but a fantastic boat captain as well.

Word of advice, stick with your cruise ships and leave diving to the divers.

 

[ronscuba]

Wow, the original poster is getting hammered. Weren't we all newbie divers at one point ? At least they gave a detailed report listing their issues. I agree, many of the issues were his/her own responsibility, but I bet other new divers would like a lot of guidance and assisstance too. In my experience in the Caribbean, most of what the OP expected, is typically provided by the DM/shop. You can call it great service or hand holding. Even though it's not required, it's what I normally see/experience in the Caribbean.