Diver Training: How much is enough?

[DCBC]

In a nutshell, the conditions that divers have been learning in have probably changed over the years, in no small part because the motivations and demographics of diving has also changed over the decades - - what had predominantly been local coldwater diving (with its environmental challenges such as <20ft viz and 4ft seas) has evolved to now predominantly be the stereotypically benign "Warmwater Vacation Diver" where the same conditions would result in the diveboats being blown out in places like the FL Keys. Sure, diving in warm, gin-clear water is certainly more enjoyable, but an unintended consequence of it is that it also less demanding too, so a "passing grade" can be less critical of classical 'mastery' metrics, and divers who only experience such benign conditions can expect to see these relevant skills be lost through atrophy.

Perhaps so, but not necessarily so: another viewpoint that can be taken is that with fewer special 'environmental' -centric concerns, the training class can also be made shorter because there's now less material to be taught. Right or wrong (and true or not), it is within the realm of what is possible because of how ambiguous the training standards are in certain areas.

The problem (as I see it), isn't that courses have become shorter, or that today's Standard requires far less knowledge and ability on the part of the student and Instructor, but that "what is required to maintain safe diving practice" has been redefined. Now it's based on bathtub water requirements and the newly certified diver is often unable to dive unsupervised. Moreover, that s/he is not trained sufficiently to allow them to be a capable Buddy; to wit: be able to lend assistance/rescue above and below the water.

I have no problem with this 'Standard' being applied in warm water supervised diving conditions. However, all certification agencies should recognize that SCUBA Diving is taught Worldwide and not solely in warm water. Instructors teaching in environments that require the student to know/do more, should be tasked to do so by the certification agencies. The Standard then becomes a Minimum Standard.

In Quebec (for example) Instructors have been held liable for teaching to a Standard that has been deemed to be insufficient for the local conditions (I was an expert witness in one of these cases). The result was the introduction of legislation for Diver Licensing, which is currently in affect. If the industry doesn't make the Standards reasonable for the diving conditions, Government eventually will. Personally, I'd prefer that all certification agencies wake-up to reality. Divers have died as a result of inadequate training and were issued a certification because they met the training Standard.

Providing a student with the necessary knowledge and skill-sets required for the conditions, goes off the rails if any certification agency stipulates 'one Standard' to be applied regardless of the training environment. This is especially true when that Standard is based upon 'ideal conditions' and the Instructor cannot add to the training program and require that the additional training be met by the student as a condition for certification.

 

[The Chairman]

What does warm water have to do with having to be supervised? I just get this "You're not macho enough" vibe every time you post that crap. My students don't need supervision after their class because their check out dives are not a collection of skills, but skills used in the execution of their dives. This is reality based in situ training, not "OMG, we're all gonna die if we can't hold our breath" training.

 

[jar546]

How do you inadequately train divers for local conditions when they are being trained in local conditions? I need some help grasping that one.

When I did OW training in the northeast, for example, the students were in 7mil suits, some farmer Jane/Johns with hoods and 5 mil gloves. This makes skills much harder than performing them in a bathing suit or shorty in the tropics. Throw in the cold water, often with poor visibility and mask clearing gets even harder due to the thick hood, gloves and cold water on your face. All of this has to be discussed with the students. The students were getting trained in local conditions. The fine silt of a lake or quarry lingers much longer than that of ocean sand and can create significant brown outs.

Now, if you went away for training in the warm tropical waters then wanted to dive locally, you may be unprepared.


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[The Chairman]

Now, if you went away for training in the warm tropical waters then wanted to dive locally, you may be unprepared.

Probably, you would learn to cope. Think about it. A person who has trim and buoyancy dialed in to the point where their peers wonder just how long they have been diving will make the small adjustments needed. Moreover, a diver who has been trained to honor their limits from the beginning of their class will approach all of their dives methodically and with due diligence in regards to conditions, the training needed as well as changes in gear requirements.

I remember my first cold water dive off of Catalina. Hey, it was only 54^oF, but I didn't die: I didn't even come close to getting injured. Why? I had the concepts of trim and buoyancy down and once I dialed in my weight, I was fine. This is one of the big reasons I demand neutral buoyancy from the very first pool session. Once they get comfortable being neutral, all the other skills are simple by comparison. Then, every additional skill added only improves their grasp of neutral buoyancy, their comfort and their competency. The best part is that now I don't have to waste precious pool time getting them to unlearn the bad habit of kneeling on the bottom. Also, since they have been in control of their buoyancy from the very beginning, control of the class is far, far easier. This is perhaps THE most important skill I give to my students and it lays the groundwork for dealing with additional complexities as needed.

 

[okiedown]

I recieved my OW in 1968 needless to say we had to have water skills or you didn't pass.
No BCD, Octopus or Computer, you had to tread water while surfaced so you better have had good swimming skills and endurance. I've since taken many more advanced courses and believe that continued education is best. However the OW course should be the most important and be able to separate the people that should or shouldn't becomes divers. However I've noticed that money speaks the loudest so everyone passes and goes on their merry way. I can't count how many times that I've seen the novice diver on boats that I don't want to be anywhere near in an emergency. I've baby setted some that had no business diving but again resorts and hungry dive instructors just keep handing out certificates.
Cheers

 

[Thalassamania]

Here's number two.

 

[DCBC]

How do you inadequately train divers for local conditions when they are being trained in local conditions? I need some help grasping that one.

If I certified a Diver that only met an Agency's 'Standards,' they may be unfit to dive in local waters. How would I know if they were never tested on the skills they need ( and unless it's part of what is required to become certified?) Some Instructors add what's necessary (with the blessing of their training Agency); some add training and withhold certification until these requirements are met (in violation with some training agencies), while others certify with the minimums (even though the skills for safe diving haven't been taught).

Now, if you went away for training in the warm tropical waters then wanted to dive locally, you may be unprepared.

No surprises here...

 

[Peter Guy]

BCDC wrote

If I certified a Diver that only met an Agency's 'Standards,' they may be unfit to dive in local waters.

BCDC, are you saying that, for example, a diver that can reliably, comfortably and repeatedly demonstrate the various diving skills where you are teaching "may be unfit to dive" where you are teaching?

At least in "PADI Land" the skills needed to be "mastered" are (in part):

1. Mask clearing/mask remove/replace;
2. Air sharing ascent;
3. Hovering/buoyancy control;
4. CESA;
5. Simple surface and underwater compass navigation (out/back);
6. Simple surface rescue skills (tows, cramping, snorkel use/control);
7. Descend and ascend under control at a set rate;
8. Plan the dive, do weight and buddy checks.

These "skills" must be demonstrated in a comfortable, reliable and repeatable manner in Open Water and if they are done in the local conditions, why isn't that student capable of doing a simple open water dive?

 

[DCBC]

BCDC, are you saying that, for example, a diver that can reliably, comfortably and repeatedly demonstrate the various diving skills where you are teaching "may be unfit to dive" where you are teaching?

The Canadian East Coast: North Atlantic. Rocky shoreline, surf, currents, waves, at times poor visibility, very cold water (often 29-34 degree F) and the largest tidal exchanges on the planet. Don't be too quick to say it's unsafe to dive here, as I'm sure people have been diving here before you were born. The training that a Diver requires however isn't the same as if you're diving in ideal conditions...

At least in "PADI Land" the skills needed to be "mastered" are (in part):

1. Mask clearing/mask remove/replace;
2. Air sharing ascent;
3. Hovering/buoyancy control;
4. CESA;
5. Simple surface and underwater compass navigation (out/back);
6. Simple surface rescue skills (tows, cramping, snorkel use/control);
7. Descend and ascend under control at a set rate;
8. Plan the dive, do weight and buddy checks.

These "skills" must be demonstrated in a comfortable, reliable and repeatable manner in Open Water and if they are done in the local conditions, why isn't that student capable of doing a simple open water dive?

You omitted: Demonstration of strong watermanship, air consumption/projection, sub-surface diver rescue, etc.. Are you saying that this is a requirement for certification with PADI? As an Instructor, would you put a Diver that just was solely able to meet 'Standards" in these waters unsupervised? Do you think that you could adequately prepare them to do so with your current program? Do you feel that s/he would actually be safe? How about if you taught the class in Norway or the North Sea? Are you saying that the 'Standards' are sufficient in these geographic areas?

 

[BDSC]

At least in "PADI Land" the skills needed to be "mastered" are (in part):

1. Mask clearing/mask remove/replace;
2. Air sharing ascent;
3. Hovering/buoyancy control;
4. CESA;
5. Simple surface and underwater compass navigation (out/back);
6. Simple surface rescue skills (tows, cramping, snorkel use/control);
7. Descend and ascend under control at a set rate;
8. Plan the dive, do weight and buddy checks.

These "skills" must be demonstrated in a comfortable, reliable and repeatable manner in Open Water and if they are done in the local conditions, why isn't that student capable of doing a simple open water dive?

For any instructors out there following this thread, in your opinions, how many times on average does a typical student need to do the above to "master" them? (Of course I know the word "master" may not be clearly defined.) For example, do you ask a student to do one mask remove/replace/clear? Three times? Five times?

I'm not sure how many times one needs to do something to master it but I read somewhere on one of these threads that on average, a person would need to do something 15 or so times to truly master it. That may or may not be true but I would think most folks would agree that to "master" something you would need to demonstrate it more than once. Are there any instructors out there that ask their students to do any of these skills at least 3 -5 times?