Diver/tender messaging question.

[PaulChristenson]

http://www.iadrs.org/images/IADRSO~1.PDF

 

[bridgediver]

This is the system that the dive team for the Rocky Mountain House fire dept uses.
Not too complicated for part timers that don't get to see non-chlorinated water for many months at a time.
Pool practice on Sunday.

Hi draft

Are you on the team in Rocky? I've been looking to contact the guys up there in terms of networking for a few years now but never get any responses.

 

[Snowbear]

Anyway, can you folks point me in the correct direction?

Being on 2 different teams who train to different standards (and line signals), is proving a challenge for me. The team in Anchorage is certified through LGS. The level of training is consistant, as is the gear configuration. It's good to know that all the divers and tenders (who are also divers) are on the same page. When I'm rooting around in the mud under the ice on the bottom of a biohazardous contaminated lake with absolute zero vizibility, it's a pretty much stress-free experience since I know that the backup diver, backup tender and 90% diver have all been trained to any possible contingency. If I'm hopelessly entangled, I know that even if I can't signal, it won't be long until someone comes along to fix the problem and get me out.

The volunteer team that I'm tentatively getting involved with just got a new cheif who is nudging the team in this direction. Though it's looking like the agency of choice will be DRI, at least they are looking to a nationally recognized standard with all the team members playing from the same sheet of music. My first dive with them 2 years ago left me with serious doubts about their competency. I did not join them then because although I'm truly not worried about my own life, I did not want to be in any way involved with the scenario that we read about so often... the stupid, completely preventable, unacceptable loss of a public safety diver due to a simple problem that should have been either prevented in the first place or dealt with by a backup diver and contingency procedures. These procedures can be easily learned AND PRACTICED with good training.

As it was, they were OW and AOW divers who dove once or twice a year and had absolutely no training beyond these classes. The dive I did with them involved a diver in the water, a surface tender and a "backup diver" who was me.... in the water.... The line was held in the searching diver's hand. The backup diver was supposed to stay above the primary diver as a "safety." The typical lake in Alaska has a deep layer of partially decomposed organic matter. Once it's touched or stirred up by fins, it takes hours to settle. It's truly black water with no hope of being able to see past your mask. They gave me a light, which of course was useless. The only way to keep track of the primary diver was to keep in touch contact, which was a a hinderance to the search. They had no organized search pattern. They made up some line pull signals before we descended. Of course, I had no way of knowing when the diver or the tender signalled, as I was not in any way attached to the line.

Anyway, there's more to the story and there were more things about this operation that would raise multiple red flags in anyone's book. The scary part is, there are many, many PSD teams who do the same thing and because "they don't know what they don't know," and haven't had a problem yet, are going to get their fins knocked out from under them someday.

Anyhow, the point I'm trying to make is, what I said in my previous post about everyone being trained to some nationally recognized standard and playing from the same sheet of music is critically important. Public Safety diving is one of the most hazardous things we do. Almost all of the hazards can be mitigated by standardized training and gear. It's fine trying to come up with a system of diver/tender signals via the internet, but the safety of the divers is dependent on so much more. To the original poster, please petition your department to spend the money to bring in an outside instructor to get of the divers on the same page. Now that you're bringing in some new members is a great time to start down this path. Being a larger fire department, our team in Anchorage has actually been able to get several in house instructors certified through LGS, so we can do all of the training in hose and are even starting to combine training with outside agencies.... currently working on a trade with the Coasties to certify some of their divers in exchange for some boat training for our people from them.

 

[diggerdpilot]

We dumbed ours down a bit more, and lined it up with the amount of words.
1 tug= Ok? Ok!
2 tugs= Give slack
3 tugs= Take up slack
4 tugs=bring the diver up
2-2-2, or 10 second blast of air, emergency!

With the addition of a OTS comm system in service last week, (finally!) we should be in much better shape, but we always go over the backup tugs before a dive, time allowing.

Digger Treinish
Fairfield County Special Ops

 

[bridgediver]

Couldn't agree more Snowbear. This thread alone has shown us 4 different types of line signals (and this isn't a mainstream PSD forum)! We are standardized (at least should be) in Canada it doesn't have all the teeth it should but it is a start. The new standard has forced our depatment to improve our team and make it safer -- theres no down side with that.

We used to use the simple line sigs but simple communications are only suitable for simple problems. Problems usually aren't simple. The new signals we use are more complex but with regular practice they are easy and convey a clearer understanding then the older signals.

 

[Gary D.]

Being on 2 different teams who train to different standards (and line signals), is proving a challenge for me. The team in Anchorage is certified through LGS. The level of training is consistant, as is the gear configuration. It's good to know that all the divers and tenders (who are also divers) are on the same page. When I'm rooting around in the mud under the ice on the bottom of a biohazardous contaminated lake with absolute zero vizibility, it's a pretty much stress-free experience since I know that the backup diver, backup tender and 90% diver have all been trained to any possible contingency. If I'm hopelessly entangled, I know that even if I can't signal, it won't be long until someone comes along to fix the problem and get me out.

The volunteer team that I'm tentatively getting involved with just got a new cheif who is nudging the team in this direction. Though it's looking like the agency of choice will be DRI, at least they are looking to a nationally recognized standard with all the team members playing from the same sheet of music. My first dive with them 2 years ago left me with serious doubts about their competency. I did not join them then because although I'm truly not worried about my own life, I did not want to be in any way involved with the scenario that we read about so often... the stupid, completely preventable, unacceptable loss of a public safety diver due to a simple problem that should have been either prevented in the first place or dealt with by a backup diver and contingency procedures. These procedures can be easily learned AND PRACTICED with good training.

As it was, they were OW and AOW divers who dove once or twice a year and had absolutely no training beyond these classes. The dive I did with them involved a diver in the water, a surface tender and a "backup diver" who was me.... in the water.... The line was held in the searching diver's hand. The backup diver was supposed to stay above the primary diver as a "safety." The typical lake in Alaska has a deep layer of partially decomposed organic matter. Once it's touched or stirred up by fins, it takes hours to settle. It's truly black water with no hope of being able to see past your mask. They gave me a light, which of course was useless. The only way to keep track of the primary diver was to keep in touch contact, which was a a hinderance to the search. They had no organized search pattern. They made up some line pull signals before we descended. Of course, I had no way of knowing when the diver or the tender signalled, as I was not in any way attached to the line.

Anyway, there's more to the story and there were more things about this operation that would raise multiple red flags in anyone's book. The scary part is, there are many, many PSD teams who do the same thing and because "they don't know what they don't know," and haven't had a problem yet, are going to get their fins knocked out from under them someday.

Anyhow, the point I'm trying to make is, what I said in my previous post about everyone being trained to some nationally recognized standard and playing from the same sheet of music is critically important. Public Safety diving is one of the most hazardous things we do. Almost all of the hazards can be mitigated by standardized training and gear. It's fine trying to come up with a system of diver/tender signals via the internet, but the safety of the divers is dependent on so much more. To the original poster, please petition your department to spend the money to bring in an outside instructor to get of the divers on the same page. Now that you're bringing in some new members is a great time to start down this path. Being a larger fire department, our team in Anchorage has actually been able to get several in house instructors certified through LGS, so we can do all of the training in hose and are even starting to combine training with outside agencies.... currently working on a trade with the Coasties to certify some of their divers in exchange for some boat training for our people from them.

Gary D.

 

[Shallow Draft]

Bridgediver


Bill Levitt looks after the Dive Team in Rocky. I should see him Sunday. Some are DR1 trained and the program is for all to be as time permitts.

 

[Snowbear]

Just to clarify.... I realize there are other nationally recognized (In or out of the US) PSD training programs than the ones I mentioned.... I just used LGS and DRI as examples.

 

[SheriffMedic]

What are the mainstream PSD forums?

 

[bridgediver]

There aren't all that many PSDers that contribute to this forum so I don't consider it "mainstream" but I guess you could call it what you like.

The primary purpose of scubaboard is for rec divers IMO