Diver missing - Pelham, Alabama

[bamamedic]

I have no freakin' idea what happened. I don't know enough about rebreathers to even guess. I'm sure some information can be obtained from the rebreather and autopsy, but that may not be conclusive. The only thing I do know is you've gotta live life for the moment and enjoy the hell out of the time you have because you never know when it's gonna be your turn.

 

[Peter69_56]

I have no freakin' idea what happened. I don't know enough about rebreathers to even guess. I'm sure some information can be obtained from the rebreather and autopsy, but that may not be conclusive. The only thing I do know is you've gotta live life for the moment and enjoy the hell out of the time you have because you never know when it's gonna be your turn.

Hence my comment "Enjoy life to the full, as you never know when you will be asked to leave"

 

[KevinNM]

CCR is not for everyone and a elevated risk comes with the territory.
What has been revealed is that Daren was aware and planned for these added risks.
When we all get into the water there is a chance we will not get out, simple fact.
Even simple, easy dives, OW, Tech, no level of expertise or experience will save us from Diver ERROR.
It happens, I am thinking of several incredible divers TOP of their game who are not with us.

That is true. But sometimes freakish bad things just happen even when you are following best practices and staying inside the dotted lines, it's part of why these sort of hobbies are considered inherently dangerous. For example, in another thread in another section a while ago a physician mentioned being involved in accident investigation of a healthy 20some y/o female cave diver who drowned when she got hit with CNS O2 toxicity at 1.3 ATA on OC.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/di...n-toxicity-limits-symptoms-3.html#post7067933

 

[dreamdive]

So everybody jumps on CCR on how "dangerous" it is. I can think of a few scenarios where it saved lives that would have been lost on OC!

 

[CamG]

The danger of speculating on any accident is that it prevents or holds the truth at bay.
CCR, OC, REC, or TECH dives matters not, facts or only open to interpretation thus opinion which has the human condition infecting it.

All our physiology changes from day to day, dive to dive.
Some limits that fall into the general safe range of many will be fatal for individuals.
These are part of the accepted risks that each diver must assess for him or herself.
It is the reason in our training we sign all the wavers, paperwork, liability agreements.

Diver error is a broad, general topic thrown at accidents that were a result of a breakdown of protocol.
It is a simple way to say the diver encountered a problem that could not be overcome.
It has been used liberally, and sometimes to mask the real cause of the accident.
The implication sheds blame on the deceased and can be very harmful to family and friends.

There are accidents caused by gear, environments, things unrelated to the diver him or herself.
However the reactions of the diver can be a key point to examine when these occur.
I know of several accidents, weather or random not foreseen, that the divers survived by keeping calm and working the problem to seek a solution.
With a CCR it can become more complicated but it all depends on the the reaction of the diver.
With a CCR they can put you to sleep, after all even the most anal prep/care electronics do not like water!
Diving a CCR takes a commitment to a intensified regiment of protocol, service, etc.

I'm not speculating any cause or suggesting any fault.
I am grieving with the family and friends loosing a loved on is hard enough without all the details of the accident going public.
Everyone wants to know, possibly the family doesn't!
Sometimes we the public need to give family and friends time to grieve not push or pry on them.

CamG

 

[gianaameri]

So everybody jumps on CCR on how "dangerous" it is. I can think of a few scenarios where it saved lives that would have been lost on OC!

On OC your mix does not change, while on CCR it is constantly changes (and can go wrong).

There is very few circumstances where the benefits of using CCR outweigh the additional risks of using CCR vs. OC.

There have been a lot of fatalities on CCR shallow, where using a CCR made no sense whatsoever.

I cannot think of one scenario where CCR can outperform OC, other than from a logistical standpoint (less gas to carry/stage/lug around), that is for deep dives (below 50 meters) and long cave penetration dives.

Lesson to be learned here: reserve CCR for dives where there is a true benefit?

 

[darushin]

Never seen that before. We often shoot a sausage up on a reel so the boat will know where we are doing our stop, but I never had any problem holding depth for a stop just watching my computer.

It isn't holding the stop that is hard, it is more for relaxing (at least for me). I shoot my bag come up to the deco stop go ever so slightly negative and relax there holding onto the line for the 60-100 minutes worth of deco I have. This also allows me more brain power to focus on other equally important things.

---------- Post added October 13th, 2014 at 08:54 AM ----------

On rebreather buoyancy is rather different from OC, and add a dry-suit, low vis., current... depth, required long-deco stops... a buoyed ascent line is a great tool and safety aid.

Having said that, if you go unconscious on rebreather you'd neither be able to deploy an ascent line (sausage or bag + reel) or get to your bail-out.

You pass out and drown.

Here we have yet another experienced and trained diver dying while using a rebreather unable of self-help/rescue (in what seems to me from the description a neither difficult nor demanding dive for his level of experience).

Depends on COD. If it is hypercapnia, then even a well trained diver may have issues due to the rate at which the CO2 buildup may occurred. Most CO2 burn-through/bypass Occurs on an almost exponential scale. According to most presentations I have seen on the topic, average time between acceptable and fatal levels of CO2 in the loop is usually measured in at most a minute or two (with <60 secs being common). This is the reason that most experts say that current CO2 sensors are not all that helpful.

---------- Post added October 13th, 2014 at 08:55 AM ----------

Some points for clarification
1) Daren was an excellent diver who paid a great deal of attention to detail.

2) He always planned his bailout strategy for one - himself.

3) He typically used a lift-bag during deco at the quarry just to practice deployment. Deploying while on a rebreather is a little different than on oc. He liked to always practice these skills.

4) Solo rebreather cert? What's next, solo rebreather sidemount cave surveyor c card?

5) The quarry is a lot more than just a "hole in the ground".

Source: I'm a friend of his who dove with him a lot, including this quarry (I know it like the back of my hand) as well as cave diving with him.

Do you know the unit he dove?

 

[tstormdiver]

Lesson to be learned here: reserve CCR for dives where there is a true benefit?

So,... How is one to get the experience to do the deeper dives (50m (150 ft) is beyond recreational limits) & cave, if it is strictly limited to 50m (150 ft) or cave penetration? How about those who want to use it for photography/ videography & not scare off the wildlife with bubbles? It is easy to say, they should only be used for this, or that,... but 1 size does not fit all.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Unit was reportedly a rEvo III.

 

[gianaameri]

So,... How is one to get the experience to do the deeper dives (50m (150 ft) is beyond recreational limits) & cave, if it is strictly limited to 50m (150 ft) or cave penetration? How about those who want to use it for photography/ videography & not scare off the wildlife with bubbles? It is easy to say, they should only be used for this, or that,... but 1 size does not fit all.

Photography/Videography if you want to use CCR you need a buddy who looks over and after you like a hawk and you trust him with your life, while you do the activity (since it is unlikely you can properly monitor the unit).

After you have achieved your proficiency for deeper dives, then just use it for that.

Common sense.

There is a place for CCR, but it is complex and more risky than OC (and more expensive where Air or N32 are suitable gases for the dive).

Was it worth using it for this dive or dives like this one? [I am asking, I never dived the place].