NudeDiver
Contributor
So, what's the story? Is this guy back in Australia yet, or is he still in the US? Last I checked, it was getting real close to the deadline for them to make something happen, or just forget about it.
Diver Indicted in 2003 GBR mishap
- Thread starter shakeybrainsurgeon
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K_girl
Contributor
New video report from Today Show on MSNBC regarding the status of extradition:
msnbc.com Video Player
Plus new pictures and interviews. Trial has been set for Feb. 3rd, 2009 and Gabe Watson has been ordered to appear. Court cannot compel Watson to appear and if he does not appear, then a warrant will be issued and then the extradition process will begin, which could take several more months. And so justice for Tina drags on..
NudeDiver
Contributor
I just can't believe that someone as overweight and dopey as Gabe Watson appears to be could EVER manage to get someone as slim and attractive as Tina to date him, let alone marry him. That's just incredible. But then he goes and kills her?? He'd have to be a complete idiot. That just doesn't make sense - even for money.
ItsBruce
Contributor
Now that is a good defense.
Except that the prosecutor will simply retort: "Knowing that he had such a good defense gives him a reason to kill her."
K_girl
Contributor
I have to agree I don't think Watson is attractive at all. I had the same first reaction when I saw the pictures. BUT - Gabe obviously thinks he is quite a catch. Tina's best friend, Amanda Phillips reported this to several news sources:
Gabe's behavior in the weeks after Tina's death also raised eyebrows. For Christmas in 2003, he sent Phillips a card that stunned her. It was a wedding picture, and he had written, "Who's that sexy guy next to Tina? Oh, yeah. That's me." Says Phillips: "I threw it down in disgust."
Source: Honeymoon Death Dive - Murder, Real People Stories : People.com
Tina died in October 2003, so Gabe is writing about how sexy he thinks he is in a wedding picture with Tina to to Tina's best friend in December 2003, only 2 months later. Is there anyone out there who thinks that this behavior is highly disgusting? Sorry, but I do. It may not prove guilt, but it wouldn't take much for me to believe that it is sociopathic behavior.
OP
shakeybrainsurgeon
Contributor
This is such a weird story. People murder for insurance money all the time, but usually after a good marriage has had years to go sour. This guy would have to be planning this before the wedding, which seems a little too sociopathic. There is an additional possibility...he intended to get her into trouble so he could rescue her and be a hero, but it went bad and she died.
In medicine, such things happen routinely. Nurses and other caregivers have been known to turn off ventilators or overdose patients so they can be the one to revive them and be lauded. Often, this behavior goes on for years before a) someone actually dies or b) someone gets suspicious of the number of heroic "saves" made by one nurse or aide. And, of course, how many fires have been started by fire fighters who want to be heroes? We had a case locally several years ago and authorities became curious at how often a given firefighter was the first to respond to a bew blaze. Maybe this "rescue diver" wanted bragging rights, who knows?
It's far-fetched, but possible. However, what goes against this is the fact that his ascent and subsequent demeanor in such a scenario would likely have shown more panic on his part. People who do this (create crises) are sick, but not usually calm, cold-blooded murderers.
Another possibility is that he intended only to fake an accident in order to sue the dive company and/or to collect on a travel insurance policy, and, again, it went bad. Believe me, I have seen people go to elaborate lengths to dupe insurance companies, and a convincing accident usually involves exposing someone to harm, even a fake accident.
I think this man is a sociopath who sought to make this dive go wrong for some personal gain, financial or otherwise, but it may be possible he had every intention of his wife surviving. His desecration of the grave may reflect his anger at her, blaming her for screwing up his plan by drowning and causing him a lot of legal grief.
In medicine, such things happen routinely. Nurses and other caregivers have been known to turn off ventilators or overdose patients so they can be the one to revive them and be lauded. Often, this behavior goes on for years before a) someone actually dies or b) someone gets suspicious of the number of heroic "saves" made by one nurse or aide. And, of course, how many fires have been started by fire fighters who want to be heroes? We had a case locally several years ago and authorities became curious at how often a given firefighter was the first to respond to a bew blaze. Maybe this "rescue diver" wanted bragging rights, who knows?
It's far-fetched, but possible. However, what goes against this is the fact that his ascent and subsequent demeanor in such a scenario would likely have shown more panic on his part. People who do this (create crises) are sick, but not usually calm, cold-blooded murderers.
Another possibility is that he intended only to fake an accident in order to sue the dive company and/or to collect on a travel insurance policy, and, again, it went bad. Believe me, I have seen people go to elaborate lengths to dupe insurance companies, and a convincing accident usually involves exposing someone to harm, even a fake accident.
I think this man is a sociopath who sought to make this dive go wrong for some personal gain, financial or otherwise, but it may be possible he had every intention of his wife surviving. His desecration of the grave may reflect his anger at her, blaming her for screwing up his plan by drowning and causing him a lot of legal grief.
Twisted enough to have merit! I just don't see this guy as bright enough create such a convoluted murder plan and pull it off. He does come off as stupid and inept enough to stuff up an attempt making himself look like a hero! The slow ascent still leaves questions tho...
K_girl
Contributor
However, shakeybrainsurgeon, the defense is not going to put out that theory. It would be highly inappropriate for a jury to come-up with such an alternate defense on their own, especially if there is no evidence that supports it. If a juror were to concoct such a defense, I think the idea of trying to drown, but not really drown someone at 40 feet would have been a ridiculous idea on Gabe's part. The likelihood of Gabe knowing that such a move more than likely would result in a death, given his training and experience, would in itself, negate such a defense. He knew Tina was a beginner and not equipped to deal with an emergency situation. It was her first non-instructional ocean dive - and he supposedly expects her to deal his attempt to drown her and still survive? Even if he were to try and put forth such a defense theory, his actions had the same result - the death of Tina Watson.
In addition, in order to make the theory plausible, the jury would have to concoct the situation of how Gabe would have initiated the fake drowning of Tina, have her survive and then not accuse him of trying to kill her. The required actions in order to initiate a fake drowning is not in Gabe's testimony, the jury would have to make-up facts and evidence to try and make it fit.
There would also be the testimony of two eye witnesses that would make such a theory even more difficult and the jury would have to ignore in order to make this theory plausible:
1) Eye Witness Dr. Stanley Stutz describes Tina struggling and fearful on her back, arms out to the side. Then, a male diver embraces her, he is on top of her, his arms underneath her armpits, Dr. Stutz thought he was trying to rescue her, but Dr. Stutz sees him let go and Tina sinks and the male diver goes to the surface. He tried to get someone else's attention and then sees the instructor make a bee-line for Tina. The instructor brought her to the surface, her eyes fixed open, vomit coming out of her mouth. Dr. Stutz felt at that point, she was dead.
Source: Haunted memory
2) The detective who overheard Gabe saying to Tina at the mortuary "I'M so sorry, I never meant to hurt you. I shouldn't have kept taking you down. I'm sorry, I couldn't stop.''
Source: Final words
Indeed, it is rare for a man to murder his wife on their honeymoon, but it is not out of the realm of possibility for a sociopath, it has happened before. However, Gabe's controlling and poor treatment of Tina had been going on for quite some time. It was not a new relationship, Tina had stopped seeing Gabe Watson for a while and was involved with another guy. Tina was actually heartbroken over that relationship and Gabe was there to step back in. I believe there was testimony at the Coroner's Hearing that showed Gabe was very jealous that Tina had been involved with someone else. This evidence was probably for the specific reason of answering the question - why would a man kill his new wife on their honeymoon. Doesn't he still love her at that point in the relationship? Here is what one of Tina's friends said about Gabe's treatment of Tina:
ALANDA THOMAS: “One time when we went out to eat after work, and he came, we went to a pizza place and he showed up; he was angry and glared at Tina the whole time,” Alanda Thomas said. “When our pizza came, he actually physically picked up a piece of pizza and threw it at her.”
In other interviews, she has said that when Watson gave his fiancée her engagement ring, he gave it to her in a bag, which he put on top the television, telling her she couldn’t look at the ring inside for six months.
“Did she complain about abuse or controlling behavior?” Lauer asked.
“She wouldn’t have done that,” Alanda Thomas replied. “She was more the one that makes excuses and tries to make peace with everybody.”
Source: Drowned bride?s family hail murder charge - TODAY: People - MSNBC.com
Actually, I don't see anything that Gabe Watson said in his interview that indicates to me, that he saw himself as a hero. Everything he said appeared to attempt to garner sympathy or deflect blame, not looking for hero worship. If you find anything in this interview that suggests that - please quote it. Here are the links to his police interview: http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2008/01/23/10038_hpnews.html
In addition, in order to make the theory plausible, the jury would have to concoct the situation of how Gabe would have initiated the fake drowning of Tina, have her survive and then not accuse him of trying to kill her. The required actions in order to initiate a fake drowning is not in Gabe's testimony, the jury would have to make-up facts and evidence to try and make it fit.
There would also be the testimony of two eye witnesses that would make such a theory even more difficult and the jury would have to ignore in order to make this theory plausible:
1) Eye Witness Dr. Stanley Stutz describes Tina struggling and fearful on her back, arms out to the side. Then, a male diver embraces her, he is on top of her, his arms underneath her armpits, Dr. Stutz thought he was trying to rescue her, but Dr. Stutz sees him let go and Tina sinks and the male diver goes to the surface. He tried to get someone else's attention and then sees the instructor make a bee-line for Tina. The instructor brought her to the surface, her eyes fixed open, vomit coming out of her mouth. Dr. Stutz felt at that point, she was dead.
Source: Haunted memory
2) The detective who overheard Gabe saying to Tina at the mortuary "I'M so sorry, I never meant to hurt you. I shouldn't have kept taking you down. I'm sorry, I couldn't stop.''
Source: Final words
Indeed, it is rare for a man to murder his wife on their honeymoon, but it is not out of the realm of possibility for a sociopath, it has happened before. However, Gabe's controlling and poor treatment of Tina had been going on for quite some time. It was not a new relationship, Tina had stopped seeing Gabe Watson for a while and was involved with another guy. Tina was actually heartbroken over that relationship and Gabe was there to step back in. I believe there was testimony at the Coroner's Hearing that showed Gabe was very jealous that Tina had been involved with someone else. This evidence was probably for the specific reason of answering the question - why would a man kill his new wife on their honeymoon. Doesn't he still love her at that point in the relationship? Here is what one of Tina's friends said about Gabe's treatment of Tina:
ALANDA THOMAS: “One time when we went out to eat after work, and he came, we went to a pizza place and he showed up; he was angry and glared at Tina the whole time,” Alanda Thomas said. “When our pizza came, he actually physically picked up a piece of pizza and threw it at her.”
In other interviews, she has said that when Watson gave his fiancée her engagement ring, he gave it to her in a bag, which he put on top the television, telling her she couldn’t look at the ring inside for six months.
“Did she complain about abuse or controlling behavior?” Lauer asked.
“She wouldn’t have done that,” Alanda Thomas replied. “She was more the one that makes excuses and tries to make peace with everybody.”
Source: Drowned bride?s family hail murder charge - TODAY: People - MSNBC.com
Actually, I don't see anything that Gabe Watson said in his interview that indicates to me, that he saw himself as a hero. Everything he said appeared to attempt to garner sympathy or deflect blame, not looking for hero worship. If you find anything in this interview that suggests that - please quote it. Here are the links to his police interview: http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2008/01/23/10038_hpnews.html
OP
shakeybrainsurgeon
Contributor
I was speculating on what might have been his intent, not on what sort of theory the defense might advance. If the defense tried to argue that Gabe was merely trying to fake an accident, then they would be admitting he was criminally responsible for her death and he would be facing major jail time, albeit not first degree murder time.
"In medicine, such things happen routinely. Nurses and other caregivers have been known to turn off ventilators or overdose patients so they can be the one to revive them and be lauded."
Yeah, but they usually don't request the patient to increase their life insurance and name them as beneficiary immediately prior to the "accidental" death.
Yeah, but they usually don't request the patient to increase their life insurance and name them as beneficiary immediately prior to the "accidental" death.
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