Diver found missing in Laguna's Shaw's Cove

[Ayisha]

Hatul and Wendy, are you referring to the area within the surge channels?

 

[Hatul]

SB Addict,Im not really familiar with Shaws Cove,My husband and I have only been there one other time with our instructor.We stayed closer to shore to practice skills. So im sorry if my description doesnt help you much.I was walking my grandson on the rocks close to the beach area,when he surfaced and yelled HELP(which still is replaying in my mind when i try to sleep) he was over in the rocky area.I can point to the 2 big rocks he was between.My husband and son ran over to wear the rocky area goes out,but they could not get to him by the time he went back under.He yelled help once. What seemed just a few minutes after his wife was brought to shore and i met her and the instructor walked with her in to sit on the rocks while the instructor went back out there.
Merxlin,I have probably said to much already,I just really don't want to get caught up in anything that may or may not happen.I will say they were newly certified.I just wanted to say not to believe what was written or posted,because it is mostly wrong.I see people making accusations and comments on these articles that aren't accurate.

If he was inside the rocky reef that can explain the problem. Even though it's shallow it's a labyrinth of swim-throughs, and it's easy to get lost. In high surge you can easily end up in washing-machine conditions, if you persist and don't turn back. Surfacing if running out of air is still the best course, but you're going into an area of breaking waves with lots of energy with rocks around you. It's certainly no place for a beginning student to be in unless the surge is very mild.

 

[WendyB]

Im so sorry i just noticed you dont go by SB Addict,that its actually Hatul.I joined this forum last summer,but today was the first time I have joined a conversation,its all new to me and im still trying to figure it out.
The waves were crashing over the rocks.
Ayisha,Im not sure of the are or channels,as this was the second time being there,but only doing one dive close to shore there.

 

[bosshog]

Get in the game and work with students before you start second guessing trained instructors. Also, as Ken has pointed out, wait until you know the facts before you sit behind your computer keyboard and make your 1000th post an embarrassing one. QUOTE]

Not to second guess instructors as I am not one...but I think they should try to bring the students back alive if at all possible.

 

[LACounty4806]

Not to second guess instructors as I am not one...but I think they should try to bring the students back alive if at all possible.[/QUOTE]

So you think they didn't try? That they were totally indifferent to someone dying? At least they weren't snarky about someones death from the absolute safety of their computer keyboard.

 

[Selchie in LB]

"Divers in the class used 15- to 20-pound weights to keep themselves from resurfacing during a dive, said Bond, who added that it appears Gibbs began the dive with a full tank of air."

Talk about not getting the information correct! The statement above appears in both published articles (actually 1 article published in 2 papers.)

Thank you Ken and Wendy for adding credible information to the thread. All the speculation and posturing that results from these threads is wasted time and I end up feeling stupider for having read through it all.

Let us not hurl stones or blame which does nothing to analyze the events leading to a tragedy. Already it is plain to see the articles are worthless in terms of facts except that someone died. The only relevant bits of information are presenting a very different story. Hopefully a decent investigation will take place and at some point a conclusion can be posted on SB. Until then be vigilant, dive safe and respect the sport.

Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk 2

 

[AaronRiot]

QUOTE LACounty4806: Get in the game and work with students before you start second guessing trained instructors. Also, as Ken has pointed out, wait until you know the facts before you sit behind your computer keyboard and make your 1000th[26th] post an embarrassing one. endQuote LACounty..

QUOTE Bosshog: Not to second guess instructors as I am not one...but I think they should try to bring the students back alive if at all possible.

People should save snarks and sarcasm for threads pertaining to lighter subject matter as opposed to recent dive accidents. Just saying. Have a little respect - it was already mentioned as a reminder that quite often people involved in these incidents happen by these threads, including this one.

Bosshog, it was mentioned in a first hand account that after bringing one new diver in to shore the instructor went back to look for the missing diver [SPECULATION] likely towards the area he was seen briefly surfacing where it has been mentioned that the area can be perilous when the surge is high [/SPECULATION]. Seems to me that the instructor took the logical path -> bring one diver in before making the decision to go back and possibly put yourself at risk looking for the lost diver who may or may not be alive.

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WendyB offered some new first hand info that seems to shed a little more light. We now have a separated diver who has surfaced and managed to call for help once before slipping back under the surface. The diver and his wife were on a refresher-type dive with a dive professional who may or may not have been hired. It appears to be true that the conditions were questionable at this location at this time for these divers who were quite new to the sport.

Thanks for speaking up, we're all just trying to learn here.

So the deceased surfaced and called for help? Was he far from where the other two surfaced?

For those familiar to the site: if you found yourself separated from your buddy/group and inside this surgey rocky reef would you surface and swim to shore? Surface and try to swim out and around the reef? Stay down (circumstances permitting) and swim out and around? Maybe ditch the gear and head to shore? (I realize the best option is not to lose your buddy etc but that is not what happened in this case is it.)

 

[Hatul]

People should save snarks and sarcasm for threads pertaining to lighter subject matter as opposed to recent dive accidents. Just saying. Have a little respect - it was already mentioned as a reminder that quite often people involved in these incidents happen by these threads, including this one.

Bosshog


For those familiar to the site: if you found yourself separated from your buddy/group and inside this surgey rocky reef would you surface and swim to shore? Surface and try to swim out and around the reef? Stay down (circumstances permitting) and swim out and around? Maybe ditch the gear and head to shore? (I realize the best option is not to lose your buddy etc but that is not what happened in this case is it.)

From what I see there the classes are held in the area just east and out of the reef. It's normally one of the easier coves to enter as the reef itself acts like a wave break to North-West swells and absorbs the wave energy.

Once inside the reef you navigate by compass and if the surge is too strong you back out and exit, as you can get banged around against the rocks and sea urchins. As long as you have air you just back out heading eastward to exit the reef. Of course if out of air you're forced to surface. One time my buddy lost a weight pouch -- we surfaced and swam on the surface out of the reef, but the waves that day weren't that strong.

In strong waves it could be a problem on the surface. Best course if out of air -- surface, inflate BC, dump weights, call for help and swim out of the reef eastward. It would be best to surface before tank is totally empty.

 

[chillyinCanada]

- it was already mentioned as a reminder that quite often people involved in these incidents happen by these threads, including this one [UNQUOTE]

Yes, we need to be considerate of this and while the parameters for posting in this subforum discourage giving the usual sympathies at times like these, it is difficult for me not to offer same to a certain poster in this thread. He's obviously hurting. I'm not being sarcastic or snide. I've had other friends who've had students and buddies die and/or be lost and feel deeply for their pain and anquish.

 

[Ken Kurtis]

Semantics again.

I'm going to suggest/request that in any further discussions we have in this thread about this accident, we avoid using the terms "student" or "class".

As Wendy - who was there and talked to the wife - pointed out in a post, and as I was told separately by someone close to the situation, they were certified divers, albeit new ones. And they were doing a tune-up/refresher dive, not really a formal class. To me, and legally as well, the terms "student" and "class" not only gives the impression of divers less-than-able/competent to deal with situations themselves, but also changes the legal/moral/ethical duties of the instructor.

I think terms like "new divers" or "newly-certified divers" along with "refresher" or "tune-up" or even "experience dive" gives a more accurate mental picture while at the same time not implying that these were divers with a lot of time in the water who were making decisions all on their own.

- Ken