Diver Drowns At White Star Quarry

[Divers Incorporated]

Hey keylargojimy and owsi176288,
You guys are a real piece of work. Do you even dive at White Star?
I wrestled with my concience about whether or not to even post any information. I decided that the lessons that could be learned were too important to keep quiet. I assure you that I will not make that mistake again.

I will address your comments to the best of my ability below even though it appears that you will pull from this what you want to pull rather than read it in it's entirety.

In my post I asked specifically that "All comments and questions be addressed to me privately." But in this, like most of the post you chose to read what you wanted to read and find fault in it all. I am pretty sure you are just fishing for a fight which is a really sad commentary on your lives, but After this I am not commenting publicly, and I will be very sure that I do not address the issues in the future if (God forbid) something like this happens again. See the comments below.

i think you owe an explanation here to owsi176288 from the previous post he wrote.

Not sure why you feel I OWE an explanation to anyone but just keep reading.

the funny thing in which i read thru your dive summary was you described like the victim died while diving a rebrether unit but reading more on from better info the vistim died from an actual heart attack.

I don't know how you could find anything "funny" about this posting. Your spelling and punctuation however, give me an insight into the person behind the message. If you go back and read my description, the cause of death was found in an autopsy by the Medical Examiner of Lucas County. The Autopsy is now public record if you wish to research and read it. The victim had his accident diving a rebreather... the cause of death was attributed to an Air Embolism. I am not the examiner, only relaying what I was told.

i think your personal post made alot of people think that all rebreather diving is unsafe and not to mention there has been talk about closing 'ws' quarry to ccr divers.

Not sure where you devined that I posted that all rebreather diving was unsafe. I think you are reading WAY to deep into this, looking for conspiracies where there are none. In a conversation following the recovery of the victims rebreather one of the officers said, "couldn't we have a rule to keep people from diving those?" Then someone else said "he didn't follow the rules we already have in place, why would he have followed that one" If you read the whole sentence in my post there is the statement that "it is not going to happen." I only mentioned it at all because I wanted divers to know that their personal actions have repercussions elsewhere.

didnt 'ws' quarry even hold a posideon ccr expo that weekend besides? actually i think you were even a participant there.

There was and I was. I think that rebreathers are the future of the industry albeit a lot of years off yet.

all i can suggest here is before you post diver fatality info make sure you think of all the people reading it and actually you know what people read at this end.

I do have a pretty good idea of the people who would be reading this. Most of the people who read this, and have respected my wishes by commenting privately, have told me that they appreciate the information and the lessons to be learned. There was no accusation intended.

I also know that there are a lot of armchair quarterbacks who will always find holes in a story to justify why they are doing what they do and diving the way they dive.

your personal description of the victims rig was one described bye an oc diver for sure. all inspiration rigs are stock at 19 cf cylinders not 30 cf. and of course a nfgr will not admit to any error especially if a uniit was modified.

I think that I indicated that in my description. It was by the way not my personal description but relayed to me by the people doing the equipment post mortem. They were assigned Rebreather experts flown in for the sole purpose of looking over the equipment and documenting what they found, in detail. I appreciate you letting me know what inspriations are originally stocked with, I only knew for sure that the tanks he used were not "stock" and considerably smaller (6cf and 13cf)

hope this gives you in sight on your post and what people read at this end of the web..

Not sure that it does, but ok

Rich,

Could you please elaborate on exactly who, and why, is talking of banning rebreathers?. This is the first rebreather fatality at white start that I know of in all the time I’ve been going there since 1990. However, there is usually one or two OC accidents/fatalities a year. Just doesn’t make since from a pure number of accidents point of view. If it’s a pure safety issue, maybe it would make more since to only allow certified divers at White Star, and ban all training dives. As uncertified divers in training have a higher chance of being involved in an incident, than experienced certified divers. Thanks in advance.

I type out that entire description and all you get out of it is that there is talk of banning rebreathers? Sorry to burst the conspiracy bubble but it is "not going to happen." To correct some of your other numbers from the quote, this is the first fatality in a very long time and only one of three that happend at White Star in the past 30 years (knock on wood). Accidents at White Star are thankfully not common. We get about one to two medical emergencies per year and they don't always involve divers. As far as accidents, they usually involve certified divers who are "getting back into diving" after taking some time off. Another reason is the classic, diving beyond their limits and capabilities.

Once again, I ask that any questions be addressed to me privately.

yes i agree 100% with owsi176288 on what he said.

makes alot of sense to me if oc divers are the higher fatality numbers why is that ccr divers would be the ones banned?

CCR Divers are NOT GOING TO BE BANNED!sheesh!

for example you know nothing about ccr diving so for you to give a break down of the deceased divers kit/rig makes nothing but hot air!!

I will say this only once more, I did not do the break down of the guys equipment, people with far more knowlege of rebreathers than I posess did. You probably posess more knowlege than most people about rebreathers and if you had been the victims buddy you probably could have helped him avoid this. I was told, without any reservation, by the people who know more about the rebreathers than I ever hope to know, the information that I relayed to this posting. Attacking me personally does nothing to your credibility. I was relaying information so that people can make their own decisions.

Please, out of respect, do not air this out publicly, If you want to discuss it privately, I will be happy to comment in private.

Rich

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

Divers Incorporated, thanks for the original report. It was clear and well written. There are always those who confuse and misunderstand, whether by accident or just to be argumentative. Thanks for your information.

 

[keylargojimy]

rich - my posts on this site is not too bash you personally.
i for one hate to hear about diver fatalities.
my point was just to make that people only beleive on what they read on this site so posting any info at all is bad until the facts come out.

i personally mis-understood in what i read here too.
the one post i read made me think the diver had a heart attack.
there is no proof of this yet nor i bet we will ever know.

i understand now this is not for certain so i apologize for my earlier post.

jimy

 

[Garth]

It sounds like this happened early in the dive right? Did I read that? Anyone know exactly how long they were into there dive? 40-45 ffw when issues happened?

 

[Garth]

I wonder how many diving fatalities are related to over-weighted divers?

He was using oxygen monitoring cells right? Not much specifics have been said about external oxygen monitoring of the loop has there or am I missing something?

 

[Divers Incorporated]

It sounds like this happened early in the dive right? Did I read that? Anyone know exactly how long they were into there dive? 40-45 ffw when issues happened?

I didn't get to look at the computer to know exactly but it WAS early in the second dive less than 20 minutes according to the buddy. According to comments by the medical examiner the air embolism would have been inevitable because of the pulmonary event on the first dive... my take on that (and here it is strictly my opinion) is that the victim entered the water, decended, and when he came up a little he felt the pain caused by the bubble and decided to surface. The buddy said he surfaced and then dropped back down. The Air Embolism probably occured at that point.

 

[Divers Incorporated]

I wonder how many diving fatalities are related to over-weighted divers?

That would be an interesting set of statistics.

He was using oxygen monitoring cells right? Not much specifics have been said about external oxygen monitoring of the loop has there or am I missing something?

Not sure... he had the software and the computers that come with an inspiration but I am not sure how he set it all up.

 

[DandyDon]

I don't know about over weighted risks. Failing to ditch weights and/or otherwise remain on the surface in an emergency is all too common. "Diver found with weights still attached." Some do not dive with ditchable weights I know, but wow.

I still don't understand how a pulmonary embolism can lead to an air embolism, then cause death?

I did 4 dives to 80+ feet one weekend with a clogged leg vein, the most common source for pulmonary embolisms. Boy was I lucky.

 

[Divers Incorporated]

I still don't understand how a pulmonary embolism can lead to an air embolism, then cause death?

I am not a doctor so I may have it wrong. The way it was explained to me was that there was a pulmonary embolism that caused two small lung ruptures that would have otherwise gone unnoticed for a while and would not have caused much discomfort at first. As he breathed compressed air underwater those ruptures became the primary cause of the Air Embolism and expanded rapidly as he surfaced. It was my understanding that had he done the first dive and drove home, the second event would have happened anyway, just in the vehicle rather than underwater.

 

[windapp]

So then, if I am reading correctly, the cause of death was not a result of equipment or diving at all. It was only his rescue that was hampered by his equipment.