Diver Down Panama City / Mexico Beach

[Scuba9]

There are three parts of this that concern me horribly:

First was that she had two buddy divers with her and they both abandoned her to go get the dive master....seems they could have double teamed her and saw to it that she had air while taking her to the surface, or one could have stayed within viewing distance of her while the other went for help, or got the attention of the other two divers, who where not far away and possibly in view as they had 40 to 50 ft vis.

secondly is the part where the "DM had her to the top in seconds" and the part where "she had a faint pulse when she was first brought up". I am sorry but I think that a rappid but safe ascent would be better in a case like this. An ascent of that nature could have bent the dm and then what good could he have been to her. also the fact that an accent of that nature could possibly have done her more harm than good. It is much easier to get someone back from drowning than from exploaded lungs or burst blood vessels in the brain.

The third is the fact that she was paired with two other "new" divers. seems it would have been better to pair the odd diver with the more experienced divers.

Not trying to point blame for anything in any way. Just playing devil's advocate to give other divers something to think about in case they were ever to be involved in something like this themselves.

By the Way......FSU... don't I know you?

 

[ROMO DIVER]

Just out or curiosity but if O2 is so important for non-breathers why have all the major CPR agencies removed rescue breathing from their courses?

The body only uses a fraction of the oxygen we breathe so O2 is wasted for a non-breather. A couple of rescue breaths for extended CPR will keep them plenty oxygenated.

 

[ROMO DIVER]

SCUBA9,

As for the ascent, I know that if I have an unconscious diver that is in obvious distress I am going to get them to the surface ASAP. Decompression illness is much more treatable than drowning.

 

[DandyDon]

Just out or curiosity but if O2 is so important for non-breathers why have all the major CPR agencies removed rescue breathing from their courses?

Other than for drownings or small children is my understanding.

Eh, you're an Instructor. Do you not teach rescue breathing for drownings...???

 

[Scuba9]

but exploaded lungs because they are not exhaling there is no recovery from.

as for the 02, with a higher consentration you have to get less air into the lung in order to keep 02 levels high enough to sustain brain and organ functions. Also having 02 available after you get the non-breather breathing again can be a lifesaver for other issues.

 

[Hetland]

First let me share that I am not a physician but may be able to shed some light on these statements/questions as I have been a first responder for more than 35 years and have provided aid in diving accidents.

Thanks for the info. I had the training, and have done my share of chest compressions, but it's been many, many years. I always used a bag, and I guess it escaped me that pocket masks might have O2 inlets in them.

There are three parts of this that concern me horribly:

First was that she had two buddy divers with her and they both abandoned her to go get the dive master....seems they could have double teamed her and saw to it that she had air while taking her to the surface, or one could have stayed within viewing distance of her while the other went for help, or got the attention of the other two divers, who where not far away and possibly in view as they had 40 to 50 ft vis.

I understood that she did a panicked ascent to the surface. I'm not going on that ride with anyone, and if her buddies had, we would likely be reading about more than one fatality.

secondly is the part where the "DM had her to the top in seconds" and the part where "she had a faint pulse when she was first brought up". I am sorry but I think that a rappid but safe ascent would be better in a case like this. An ascent of that nature could have bent the dm and then what good could he have been to her. also the fact that an accent of that nature could possibly have done her more harm than good. It is much easier to get someone back from drowning than from exploaded lungs or burst blood vessels in the brain.

I believe DM's are trained to bring a non-breather up in a manner that allows expanding gasses to vent. Additionally, if he was at the surface and did a bounce dive (with no prior loading) he could have pulled it off before on-gassing any significant nitrogen. Not a job I'd want, but it's possible to do it without getting bent. I'd bet she blew her lungs on her first panicked ascent, and the DM was probably most concerned about getting her in a position to start cpr as soon as possible.

The third is the fact that she was paired with two other "new" divers. seems it would have been better to pair the odd diver with the more experienced divers.

Could be that everyone on the boat was relatively inexperienced. It also sounds like everyone (except the panicked diver) did the best they could to manage the situation: No one else panicked, the DM took quick action, and only one diver got hurt. Once on the surface, the DM began first aid, the captain headed inshore, and the other divers pitched in as needed.

 

[The Chairman]

From the sounds of it, she embolized on the first ascent and stroked, sinking back to depth. The initial panic could have been from anything: aspirating a small amount of water, partially flooded mask while entangled, overbreathing her reg, OOA, and more. Only she could tell us what happened.

I don't think the second ascent rate had any affect on her well being.

Caveat: I am not a medical doctor, and am merely posing one of many possibilities.

 

[FSUgly]

There are three parts of this that concern me horribly:

First was that she had two buddy divers with her and they both abandoned her to go get the dive master....seems they could have double teamed her and saw to it that she had air while taking her to the surface, or one could have stayed within viewing distance of her while the other went for help, or got the attention of the other two divers, who where not far away and possibly in view as they had 40 to 50 ft vis.

Let me clarify their positioning from the way I understood it. The DM and one other diver were above/ahead in the ascent of the deceased and her 'temp' buddy. While they did the dive together (3 new divers with the more experienced/higher trained DM), apparently they paired up on the ascent. I do not know how far up the anchor line they were when this disaster started to occur. I also assume that the other 2 divers made the ascent to the boat with the DM. I do know that when I am on the anchor line making an ascent, it is a fairly simple, kinda boring part of the dive. While one could say that the DM should have payed more attention to the lesser experienced divers in his group, if there had been no problems throughout the 'riskier' parts of the dive, I could see where he would pay a little less attention to them on this part of the dive (although not excusing him if this was the case). BTW, she was already a certified Scuba diver.

secondly is the part where the "DM had her to the top in seconds" and the part where "she had a faint pulse when she was first brought up". I am sorry but I think that a rappid but safe ascent would be better in a case like this. An ascent of that nature could have bent the dm and then what good could he have been to her. also the fact that an accent of that nature could possibly have done her more harm than good. It is much easier to get someone back from drowning than from exploaded lungs or burst blood vessels in the brain.

As I stated at the beginning of my description of events, time is hard to account for in this type of situation. Seconds: I honestly do not recall how many. The whole event is somewhat like a blur. As far as the rapid ascent, I am leaving that call up to the DM. I do not feel like he made any purposefully bad decision in that regard.

The third is the fact that she was paired with two other "new" divers. seems it would have been better to pair the odd diver with the more experienced divers.

As I said above, she and the two other divers were with the higher trained/more experienced DM. This does not seem to be anything out of the ordinary to me. I have seen where some dives require a DM with less experienced divers, and that DM will have 3, 4, 5 or more divers following him/her around.

Not trying to point blame for anything in any way. Just playing devil's advocate to give other divers something to think about in case they were ever to be involved in something like this themselves.

Sometimes this will allow a different view of the events, and can be beneficial.

By the Way......FSU... don't I know you?

I don't think so. Or atleast you don't look familiar to me (from your image in your avatar).

 

[SC_Hoaty]

A couple folks asked about the dive op - Daly's Dock and Dive. They are NOT brand new - I used them a few years ago. At that time they also had a DM in the water (unlike many Keys ops that have the DM stay on the boat). I did not note any particular equipment like O2 or AED, or the lack thereof. We dove on the Vamar that day, which is not as deep as this dive was.

The website at that time was also sparse.

 

[BUGBAGGER]

"All" the major training agencies have not yet removed rescue breaths from their CPR training and as noted it is not likely to be removed in all situations.

The meeting of ILCOR to discuss the recommendation by some that rescue breaths be discontinued will be held in November. I expect there will be a lot of discussion.

Since the administtration of O@ has proven to be significantly valuable in diving accidents involving DCS and near drowning/drowning it is likely that it will continue to be recommended to use O2 and this would be useless without a delivery system. The lay persons delivery system for a non-breathing diver is rescue breaths.

I am very interested to see what comes of the ILCOR meeting and the application of it to CPR/First aid training in diving accidents by the training agencies that serve and train dive rescuers.