Diver dies in Richmond, TX while cleaning water tank

[Superlyte27]

I am a friend of ... well I am a friend of the girlfriend of the man this article is about, unfortunately... saw this thread while I was searching on Google for the news article, decided I would drop in to maybe learn a thing or two from a scuba diving prospective.

The only info the family has, at least that I am aware of, is that which is in the news articles... so pretty much any questions you have.. no one has the answers for right now.

But a bit more background..

This was his third day on the job. It was his first dive for this company. The previous day the girlfriend was told by the guy he thought they were going to let him dive the next day (... obviously they did). Moreso, he definitely has his scuba license, but he was likely out of practice. It had been a while (I do not know how long) since his last dive. Here is the best question of all, from an employer perspective, WHY THE **** DID YOU SEND THE GUY THAT JUST 'CLAIMED' TO KNOW HOW TO DIVE INTO A TANK, FIRST, AND BY HIMSELF, AND WITHOUT CONSTANT COMMUNICATION. Not to say he didn't know how to dive by any means, I have no knowledge of that matter.. honestly I didn't really know him that well, unfortunately. I thought I would have plenty of time to get to know him.. but something like this happens and you realize how short life can be. But, from an employer perspective, you don't just take someones word for it. You make them show you... not let someone go in unattended.

(I say unattended.. I wasn't there.. but how could he be attended to and have this happen)

The SECOND diver had REGULATOR problems?!?! What the **** did the first dive have. Speculation completely, but perhaps he also had regulator problems and inexperience or out of experience contributed to not handling it appropriately? I was talking with a friend who has scuba experience, and he pointed out that ... something has to have happened, because, why didn't he just.. come up for air. It wasn't THAT deep. And the second diver who.. just.. went up for air and waited around for an hour before anyone got him out?!?!?! hold your ****ing breath and jump in for christ sakes. From what I understand.. you don't really need oxygen to get TO the bottom in 30 feet.. you just need it to stay at the bottom.

This is a contractor company, not a direct hire to the city. It sounds like that could be yet more extremely unfortunate news in terms of any type of benefits from what I've been reading on all the comments from various news posts about this.

I certainly don't have all the details, but it sure sounds like complete negligence by the employer, regardless of how it happened or even if it was 100% his 'fault'.

actually, you don't have any of the details...
PM me.

 

[AggieDiver]

There are any number of ways in which this could have happened, and one of the things we all try to avoid here (sometimes more successfully than others) is blind speculation...that is speculating at a cause without anything to base it on. Until we see more details, it is probably going to be impossible to figure out exactly what happened. Obviously some of the things you pointed out (inexperience, lack of direct communication, solo dive, etc) will end up being players in why this incident became a fatality instead of a near miss, but the reason the diver wound up with a reportedly empty tank on the bottom with his mask off may never be truly known.

What I will respond to is your question about the diver responding. First of all, almost every first aid/first responder type training will teach you not to rush into a rescue situation unless you can do so safely. Your first responsibility once you have summoned additional help is to make sure that you don't create a 2nd victim (yourself) for subsequent responders to have to rescue. I could tell you several stories of industrial accidents involving confined space entry in which one or more potential "rescuers" died alongside the first victim because they rushed in without proper equipment and without making sure the situation was safe for them.

In diving (probably much as you see in skydiving), you don't dive with gear that you know has a problem. So once the 2nd diver had a problem with his reg, he would have been foolish to continue diving and may have ended up in the same situation as the first diver if he had. It is one thing to do a breathholding dive to 30'. It is another thing entirely to dive to 30 feet in a dark tank, with unknown potential hazards that may have already caused one diver problems and then try to safely bring that diver to the surface. If there was no additional tender outside, what is he then supposed to do once he gets the diver to the surface inside the tank?

I would just caution you to wait until you see the more complete accounts with details of who was on hand and what exactly the problems were (probably via OSHA) before deciding that the 2nd diver did something wrong. His first responsibility was to his own safety. If he was alone and didn't have anybody he could send for help or to help him get the diver out of the tank, his options would be significantly more complicated.

 

[Blue Sparkle]

It seems like there must be more to this we don't know and/or we have wrong information (which many members here are used to in these situations but perhaps the newer members are not).

From the opposite perspective (diver), I can't imagine applying for a commercial (i.e. paid, not sure if commercial is the right term here) diving job if I had only my OW for about a year and minimal diving experience? I just wouldn't feel comfortable with that. I also don't know for a fact that that's the case here, but it was mentioned by friends of the diver.

 

[AggieDiver]

I was talking with a friend who has scuba experience, and he pointed out that ... something has to have happened, because, why didn't he just.. come up for air. It wasn't THAT deep.

I can address this with a little speculation of my own...divers that need to work on the bottom will sometimes overweight themselves to make sure they don't "bounce" off the bottom when they try to walk or manuever. Often if they plan to be walking around on the bottom, they won't wear fins either. I am not claiming this to be the case here, but just speculating that IF that were the case, and a diver had a problem with his buoyancy compensator inflation, he might have significant difficulty getting to the surface in the event of a problem. If he were having air supply or regulator problems, it would have made trying to fill the BCD that much more difficult and might have prevented him from reaching the surface. The easy answer is to ditch the weights and swim for the surface, but as others here can attest, many divers have drowned with a full weight belt around their hips because they panicked and never released their weights. Again, not saying any of that happened here, but just pointing out that there may be rational explanations why the situation might not be as straight forward as it seems initially.

 

[Superlyte27]

Here's my thoughts on the subject... Whether you want them or not...

It's screwed up. This guy have barely enough experience to dive in the pool in my backyard let alone a water tower. But, he knew that when he got into the "above ground pool" yesterday. I seriously doubt he told Ron that he hadn't been diving sine '09 and that his only experience was in his OW class. I just don't believe that for a second. Yesterday morning, he got into that tank. It was his first dive, and someone got in the tank with him to make sure he was good to go. Diver #2 got out of the water after seeing Diver #1 was acclimated to the environment. Sometime later Diver #2 realized something was wrong and tried to perform a rescue. Diver #1 was overweighted to the point that Diver #2 was unable to immediately pull the victim to the surface. And here's the bit of news that hasn't been released.... The scuba tank was empty.

Now, where does that leave us.
The company screwed up. Rules are there for a reason. Ron Perrin is absolutey at fault here. He knows this is a commercial environment with rules and guidelines that are in place to prevent this stuff from happening. He chose not to follow those rules and someone died. There's no excuse for that. However, the victim is not blameless. Which of you have ever made a solo dive in a foreign environment without bells and whistles going off in the back of your mind? In SCUBA we are all responsible for our OWN safety. NO ONE is ever going to put ME in a position where I might die diving. I might put myself in that position, but it's my choice. This man taking this job knowing his experience level was just dumb. I'm sorry, but that can't be argued.

This accident had little to do with the fact that it was a commercial job. He was in 40' of crystal clear water. He ran out of air and didn't make it to the surface. Which of us has not been trained in how to deal with an OOA emergency in 40' of water? Tower, River, Ocean, Quarry or Sink, I think the results would have been exactly the same.

 

[joshts0]

I can address this with a little speculation of my own...divers that need to work on the bottom will sometimes overweight themselves to make sure they don't "bounce" off the bottom when they try to walk or manuever. Often if they plan to be walking around on the bottom, they won't wear fins either. I am not claiming this to be the case here, but just speculating that IF that were the case, and a diver had a problem with his buoyancy compensator inflation, he might have significant difficulty getting to the surface in the event of a problem. If he were having air supply or regulator problems, it would have made trying to fill the BCD that much more difficult and might have prevented him from reaching the surface. The easy answer is to ditch the weights and swim for the surface, but as others here can attest, many divers have drowned with a full weight belt around their hips because they panicked and never released their weights. Again, not saying any of that happened here, but just pointing out that there may be rational explanations why the situation might not be as straight forward as it seems initially.

Thanks, I know that there are plenty of things I am uneducated about.. and thats really why I am here; to get the input from those that are in the know.. I know next to nothing about it..

 

[joshts0]

I would just caution you to wait until you see the more complete accounts with details of who was on hand and what exactly the problems were (probably via OSHA) before deciding that the 2nd diver did something wrong. His first responsibility was to his own safety. If he was alone and didn't have anybody he could send for help or to help him get the diver out of the tank, his options would be significantly more complicated.

Yeah, I admit that if I sounded like I was pointing fingers that is definitely an uneducated thing without any of the real facts, no one knows really what happened just yet. Its all pure speculation on my part based on the complete lack of details, which clearly won't do any good. I believe there were three, and two others outside the tank... and we all know the media never gets it right, so I do doubt someone would be so uneffected by it that they would just sit around twiddling there fingers why someone was drowning inside..

 

[Superlyte27]

I can address this with a little speculation of my own...divers that need to work on the bottom will sometimes overweight themselves to make sure they don't "bounce" off the bottom when they try to walk or manuever. Often if they plan to be walking around on the bottom, they won't wear fins either.

Having worked in the commercial world and specifically in water towers, I can say almost without doubt that this is the case. I have never seen a fin in a water tower, and if we are doing any kind of cleaning (rather than just an inspection/repair) we are almost certainly overweighted to put more force into our work.

*edit*
I also want to note that he was wearing "a very small cylinder, the size you'd wear in OW pool session". I'm speculating, but I'm guessing this might be an AL50. So, take a new diver with their SAC rate, add in the fear factor and stress of climbing a water tower, add in the factor of working in the tower for the first time, add in being 20lbs overweighted, and how long will the tank last? A new diver in a bit of panic to realize his AL50 only lasted 12 minutes can't get to the surface because he's overweighted and has no fins doesn't think to drop his belt? Except for the first sentence, THIS PARAGRAPH IS SPECULATION.

 

[joshts0]

Here's my thoughts on the subject... Whether you want them or not...

It's screwed up. This guy have barely enough experience to dive in the pool in my backyard let alone a water tower. But, he knew that when he got into the "above ground pool" yesterday. I seriously doubt he told Ron that he hadn't been diving sine '09 and that his only experience was in his OW class. I just don't believe that for a second. Yesterday morning, he got into that tank. It was his first dive, and someone got in the tank with him to make sure he was good to go. Diver #2 got out of the water after seeing Diver #1 was acclimated to the environment. Sometime later Diver #2 realized something was wrong and tried to perform a rescue. Diver #1 was overweighted to the point that Diver #2 was unable to immediately pull the victim to the surface. And here's the bit of news that hasn't been released.... The tank was empty.

That is way more info than anyone had so far, thank you. It gives a much clearer picture of what actually happened.

Now, where does that leave us.
The company screwed up. Rules are there for a reason. Ron Perrin is absolutey at fault here. He knows this is a commercial environment with rules and guidelines that are in place to prevent this stuff from happening. He chose not to follow those rules and someone died. There's no excuse for that. However, the victim is not blameless. Which of you have ever made a solo dive in a foreign environment without bells and whistles going off in the back of your mind? In SCUBA we are all responsible for our OWN safety. NO ONE is ever going to put ME in a position where I might die diving. I might put myself in that position, but it's my choice. This man taking this job knowing his experience level was just dumb. I'm sorry, but that can't be argued.

This accident had little to do with the fact that it was a commercial job. He was in 40' of crystal clear water. He ran out of air and didn't make it to the surface. Which of us has not been trained in how to deal with an OOA emergency in 40' of water? Tower, River, Ocean, Quarry or Sink, I think the results would have been exactly the same.

I understand.. and agree.. completely.


If I sounded like I was pointing fingers, then I apologize, I was certainly only speculating, and I do know how that always ends up..

You sound much closer to the incident than anyone else (how btw.. maybe via pm.. ), obviously you are responsible for yourself, I ride motorcycles and am interested in 'extreme' sports too, and that is one thing they all teach; always maintain control of the situation, don't do things you know you can't, etc etc. But, I would be curious to know more about the rules and regulations about it.. what rules did they break that should have prevented this? Are you supposed to maintain constant communication? Ie, should someone have constantly been holding is tug line, so that the moment it was loose/he was unresponsive, they would have been in a better position to rescue him?

Also, I hear that there are frequently man holes in the side of the tank that can be opened from the inside for this reason alone, is that true? Is that the case here? Perhaps the size of the opening on top and other things that I don't know anything about mean that this tank did not have to have one, and a top hole of X size is enough? (I'm trying to piece together things from all places, excuse the mess..)

 

[dfwterry]

Here's my thoughts on the subject... Whether you want them or not...

It's screwed up. This guy have barely enough experience to dive in the pool in my backyard let alone a water tower. But, he knew that when he got into the "above ground pool" yesterday. I seriously doubt he told Ron that he hadn't been diving sine '09 and that his only experience was in his OW class. I just don't believe that for a second. Yesterday morning, he got into that tank. It was his first dive, and someone got in the tank with him to make sure he was good to go. Diver #2 got out of the water after seeing Diver #1 was acclimated to the environment. Sometime later Diver #2 realized something was wrong and tried to perform a rescue. Diver #1 was overweighted to the point that Diver #2 was unable to immediately pull the victim to the surface. And here's the bit of news that hasn't been released.... The tank was empty.

Now, where does that leave us.
The company screwed up. Rules are there for a reason. Ron Perrin is absolutey at fault here. He knows this is a commercial environment with rules and guidelines that are in place to prevent this stuff from happening. He chose not to follow those rules and someone died. There's no excuse for that. However, the victim is not blameless. Which of you have ever made a solo dive in a foreign environment without bells and whistles going off in the back of your mind? In SCUBA we are all responsible for our OWN safety. NO ONE is ever going to put ME in a position where I might die diving. I might put myself in that position, but it's my choice. This man taking this job knowing his experience level was just dumb. I'm sorry, but that can't be argued.

This accident had little to do with the fact that it was a commercial job. He was in 40' of crystal clear water. He ran out of air and didn't make it to the surface. Which of us has not been trained in how to deal with an OOA emergency in 40' of water? Tower, River, Ocean, Quarry or Sink, I think the results would have been exactly the same.

I know that Travis said something to his dad that he was going into training first before actually diving. And like everyone says, all this is speculation. We all know that we need to wait and see what comes of any investigation going on. But it's hard when you know the person in question to not want immediate answers to try and make sense of the situation. As a recreational diver myself, I have never dove with a weight belt, so if I paniced, I might forget about a belt. I know he was trained in a weight integrated BCD. AHHHH, just so many unanswered questions. Only time may answer. We need to be patient like every one is saying. (Patients have never been my strong suit)