Diver Dies in Lake Huron on the Dunderberg

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I am hoping to dive this wreck this year so this has definitely cast a shadow on my plans although I still plan to go ahead with the dive, it once again re-enforces (in my mind at least) the need to be constantly training and practicing skills for these types of dives.

I hate to be the one to bring this up but, does anyone know what kind of certs/training/experience these divers had? The reason I ask is that last summer there was a thread on SB that got somewhat heated concerning this very wreck and if it was considered a technical dive or not.

The charter boat I use for the Dunderberg considers this a tech dive. I think most dive it this way due to the cold water and depth, not to mention the fact that you want some time to see it. It's about 155 feet to the mud, 130-135 to the deck. Here is a link to a write up and some photos I've taken of this wreck to give you an idea of what it looks like.

Andy
 
I don't think there are hard and fast rules about how much deco you can "blow off" and expect to walk away from it, chamber or no. But I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't do my technical or cave dives with strangers. I do them with friends. Some of them are very close and very dear friends, and one of them is my husband. If I had someone unconscious underwater and breathing (unlikely, but possible) I'd manage them through at least some of our decompression. I think I could do that -- it's not easy, but I have brought people up in classes with pretty decent control. If they aren't breathing, you have very little time to end up with a neurologically intact person -- probably in the neighborhood of about 8 minutes. (Note that CPR classes will say something more like 4, but they are not talking about a patient who has been breathing a high ppO2 before the breathing stops. When we are intubating patients and have had them on a ppO2 of 1.0 before trying, and the patient is of normal body habitus, it is estimated we have about 8 minutes before serious damage occurs.)

So you need to have that person on the surface in 8 minutes or less. And if you are going to do any of your deco, you've got to manage a gas switch in the middle of ascending this unresponsive and unhelpful diver. It's not going to be easy, and my guess is you probably wouldn't try, but would just come up on backgas. If I had a huge obligation (which I doubt I ever will) I might stop at 20 feet and send the person up from there, and then do a huge, long, Buhlmann-type hang. Or I might take them all the way up. It would in part depend on how much risk I was taking on, who it was, and what the conditions on the boat are. I've dived off one boat that has a suited up safety diver at all times -- there, I'd probably be more likely to send someone up. Somebody's father driving my boat . . . I'd probably try very hard to go to the surface with the injured person.

The prognosis for someone who stops breathing underwater is poor, unless you are talking about severe narcosis in the 400 foot range. But I couldn't live with myself if my friend Kevin or my dear friend Kirk or my husband Peter died, and I wasn't totally sure I had done everything I could to save them.

Things like this are why staged decompression diving is not something to be undertaken lightly. Anybody can go down and come back up in stops, and even switch gas. But what you do when things go sideways is why this stuff isn't trivial at all.
 
The charter boat I use for the Dunderberg considers this a tech dive. I think most dive it this way due to the cold water and depth, not to mention the fact that you want some time to see it. It's about 155 feet to the mud, 130-135 to the deck. Here is a link to a write up and some photos I've taken of this wreck to give you an idea of what it looks like.

Andy,
Nice photos and write-up. I need to start tech training this year...
Too many good wrecks around that I can't get to!!
I also enjoyed your and Erica's article in the winter DAN magazine.
 
I knew that starting this discussion was a bad idea but somehow I just couldn't stop myself.

Whatever. Dive however you like, it really doesn't affect me.

Sorry for all the bother, I will definitely know better the next time

Well, I thought i was done but maybe not :)

There is, on further reflection a case where maybe it is better to simply send a diver up to the surface. This is based on a comment Lynne (TSandM) made on another thread.

Generally, if a diver is convulsing, has a reg in their mouth (apparently breathing or not), I am going to do my absolute best to ascend them.

If the diver is unresponsive in an overhead, I will tow them out if humanly possible.

IF the diver is totally unresponsive, AND has no reg in the mouth, then maybe it is better to just send them up (assuming surface support exists and the boat can either move, another boat can come or air support is possible)

I dont honestly know if it's better to try to ascend someone (with or without stuffing a reg in their mouth -- I have been taught both ways) or shoot them up. It sure *feels* wrong to simply shoot someone to the surface but maybe in this case there is a better chance for them.

Regardless, I am not going to be doing anything like my normal deco schedule unless there is a very well-staffed surface support (which I almost always dont have)
 
Generally, if a diver is convulsing, has a reg in their mouth (apparently breathing or not), I am going to do my absolute best to ascend them.

NO! If the diver s convulsing you must NOT bring him/her up, they will likely suffer a over expansion injury, during convulsions the can be holding their breath involuntarily, wait until convulsions has ceased then bring them up.
 
Chris is correct. Once a seizure begins the best thing to do is just get control of them to keep then from hurting themself. As the father of a daughter with epilepsy I can tell you that during the seizure they are not breathing as we consider it. There may be some involuntary movement of the chest but it is possible that they are in respiratory arrest and the airway is closed. Once the seizure ends the most common thing that happens is a big inhale or exhale. Hold them still, try to get the reg in their mouth or at least in front and purge it at their lips. Once the convulsions stop you may be able to get the reg in and they will breathe. If you try to bring them up they will not be able to vent while seizing. Once the seizure stops whether or not you get the reg in keep the head up and back and slowly bring them up. Bringing them up during the seizure is a good way of killing them for sure.
 
NO! If the diver s convulsing you must NOT bring him/her up, they will likely suffer a over expansion injury, during convulsions the can be holding their breath involuntarily, wait until convulsions has ceased then bring them up.

Yes, I was not clear in my statement. Obviously you are not going to ascend someone that is still convulsing, but rather wait until convulsions cease (assuming they do which may not be the case apparently) and then ascend them as long as they are not convulsing.

My post was not clear on that.
 
Chris is correct. O.

yes, see my other post. I was merely saying this was a scenario in which I would for sure ascend someone, NOT that I would asend someone currently convulsing.

Interestingly, referring to the "shooting someone to the surface if they have no reg in the mouth" --- I do know someone that survived such an incident, although the reg I believe was more "yanked" than out for "some time"
 
This thread just cements my desire to take a rescue course next. Honestly, I wouldn't know what to do with an incapcitated diver. Nothing I've taken so far has teached that, please tell me Rescue does go through all that?
 
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