Diver dies in Islamorada

[ianr33]

Fins on wrist when climbing the ladder

Yep,thats the way I do it,but not many people do.

A diver without fins is pretty much helpless.

 

[SailNaked]

Speculation:

Before we assume the boat was negligent it is possible that :

The diver said she was fine to the professional in the water, said she was fine to the crew at the ladder when they asked, and then floated away from the ladder.

the Crew at this point assumes they are recovering a tired diver at the surface and calls the divers up waits for them and then recovers the assumed tired diver only to discover that at 51 she had a heart attack at some point after leaving the back of the boat.

 

[Luku]

Is it common place to wait until all divers are recovered from a 100ft+ dive before effecting a rescue of a flailing diver? Tough spot for a charter boat to be in for sure...

If there are divers under the boat, yes you have to wait before engaging the engines. Boat props hurt, the crew/captain most likely had no idea at what depth the other divers were at, one of the other divers could have been coming up at any time then you might have had 2 dead divers. (pure speculation, from a different perspective).

Did I miss where it said she was "flailing" in the water.

If we are arm chair quarterbacking I guess the crew could have thrown a life ring with a rope attached to her, doesn't say if they did or didn't.

I'm likely to get flamed for this part but, from my experience, once an instructor takes a certified diver back to the boat (we can assume she is certified since she was diving a 100' wreck) and get an OK from them and the crew, there is no need to wait for them to climb the ladder if the instructor still has student / divers at 100' who could need his help too. You have one person safely on the surface next to the boat and several divers at 100' below. I'd get my butt back down to the divers below asap.

Flame on

My sympathies to the family.

 

[Thalassamania]

if the dive boat had 6 divers or less(not including the instructor), such vessel is required to have only one crew member, the master(captain) on board(typical of the majority of dive/snorkel operations in the keys taking 6 or less passengers). if indeed that was the case here, the captain would be hard pressed(i believe legally as well) to leave the vessel to assist the diver in question in such conditions(noted in previous posts) with other divers still underwater(possibly compromising their safety as well). just a tragic event for all parties,,,,,,,,,,,,,


reefman
key largo

From a rave review of the operation (not to toot it's horn, but to describe the boat): "The boat was skippered by a very experienced captain, and the dives were guided with about 4-6 divers per guide. ... The boat, the Giant Stride, is a three year old, steel hulled, twin screw direct drive motor vessel, with an open transome making the water entry a breeze."

Speculation:

Before we assume the boat was negligent it is possible that :

The diver said she was fine to the professional in the water, said she was fine to the crew at the ladder when they asked, and then floated away from the ladder.

the Crew at this point assumes they are recovering a tired diver at the surface and calls the divers up waits for them and then recovers the assumed tired diver only to discover that at 51 she had a heart attack at some point after leaving the back of the boat.

If there are divers under the boat, yes you have to wait before engaging the engines. Boat props hurt, the crew/captain most likely had no idea at what depth the other divers were at, one of the other divers could have been coming up at any time then you might have had 2 dead divers. (pure speculation, from a different perspective).

Did I miss where it said she was "flailing" in the water.

If we are arm chair quarterbacking I guess the crew could have thrown a life ring with a rope attached to her, doesn't say if they did or didn't.

I'm likely to get flamed for this part but, from my experience, once an instructor takes a certified diver back to the boat (we can assume she is certified since she was diving a 100' wreck) and get an OK from them and the crew, there is no need to wait for them to climb the ladder if the instructor still has student / divers at 100' who could need his help too. You have one person safely on the surface next to the boat and several divers at 100' below. I'd get my butt back down to the divers below asap.

Flame on

My sympathies to the family.

Certified does not mean willingly solo. I feel that the instructor should have staid close enough to her to help out until she was aboard, of at least assured that a crewmember was in a position to take over that responsibility from the deck.

 

[cappyjon431]

Anyone hear if there was any obvious signs of trauma? I know it is just speculation, but I have seen the type of damage that can be inflicted by a metal ladder in 5-7 foot seas.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I've been to the keys a couple times and dove with several different ops. Each time there were at least two crew on the boat- captain and mate or DM. At no time was a DM ever in the water to guide unless they were contracted by one of the people on the boat for that purpose. The Eagle is a deeper advanced dive and unless with an instructor in a class or guided a min of AOW is required by most ops to dive it.

If such was the case the divers still on the wreck were all certified divers and HOPEFULLY capable of waiting a few minutes for the instructor to return while he WATCHED the diver board or made sure she had assistance. In any case when conducting a class and having to escort a diver to the surface who for whatever reason had to call the dive it is the instructors responsibility to make sure he/she is safely on board or on shore before leaving. He should also have made sure if he did have to get back down that the crew had the situation under control if she should require assistance. If this was done we do not know.

We do know that a diver was left to drift, seemingly unresponsive, and no one went to her assistance. That is to me very disturbing. As I stated earlier a flotation device and a DM may have made the difference. Maybe not. But it would seem the effort should have been made.

 

[Luku]

Certified does not mean willingly solo. I feel that the instructor should have staid close enough to her to help out until she was aboard, of at least assured that a crewmember was in a position to take over that responsibility from the deck.

Certified does mean she can swim, that's all she had to do once she was on the surface. If she signaled that she was OK to the instructor at the surface (we don't know if she did or didn't) and the boat crew had her next to the boat (at the ladder) I see no problem with the instructor leaving to get back to the other divers.

If one of the other divers had a problem, everyone would have been screaming, why did he leave the group at 100' on a wreck. I believe he did the right thing, he saw her to the surface, got her to the boat, then got back to the other divers asap. I've seen divers hang onto the ladder for 10 minutes before climbing up.

 

[Scubakevdm]

We do know that a diver was left to drift, seemingly unresponsive,

I didn't get that she was unresponsive while she floated away, but I'll go back and read it again.

I'm not saying that the op wasn't negligent, but I'm also not saying that they were. I'm saying that to me, there's not enough information to make that sort of judgment. I can think of scenarios that would prove either case.

One more thing... from first hand experience, the reporter usually doesn't get the story right.

 

[Jeff Toorish]

These are the special rules for this forum:

Originally Posted by Rick Murchison
The purpose of this forum is the promotion of safe diving through the examination and discussion of accidents and incidents; to find lessons we can apply to our own diving.
Accidents, and incidents that could easily have become accidents, can often be used to illustrate actions that lead to injury or death, and their discussion is essential to building lessons learned from which improved safety can flow. To foster the free exchange of information valuable to this process, the "manners" in this forum are much more tightly controlled than elsewhere on the board. In addition to the TOS:

(1) You may not release any names here, until after the names have appeared in the public domain (articles, news reports, sheriff's report etc.) The releasing report must be cited. Until such public release, the only name you may use in this forum is your own.
(2) Off topic posts will be removed and off topic comments will be edited.
(3) No flaming, name calling or otherwise attacking other posters. You may attack ideas; you may not attack people.
(4) No trolling; no blamestorming. Mishap analysis does not lay blame, it finds causes.
(5) No "condolences to the family" here. Please use our Passings Forum for these kinds of messages.
(6) If you are presenting information from a source other than your own eyes and ears, cite the source.
(7) If your post is your hypothesis, theory, or a "possible scenario," identify it as such.


Clearly there is no rule against speculation or hypothesis, although to speculate with clearly limited facts seems unwise. There is a rule against "blamestorming."

In my opinion it is too soon to really form any opinions about this accident. If a crew member did not jump into the water, there may be a very good reason. Remember the first rule of rescue is to avoid turning one injury/death into two.

It would be helpful if the folks nearer to this keep an eye out for more information in the local media or even do a little digging so we can all learn from this.

Jeff

 

[cruiser]

If the diver was somehow impaired (I don't mean drugs or alcohol) by seasickness, AGE, low blood sugar, unfamiliar with the challenging conditions or whatever, it is very easy to succumb to being swamped by high waves and subsequently drowning. Especially if she was without some of her scuba gear.