Diver dies in Islamorada

[Duke Dive Medicine]

Just as with any accident, there are lessons that can be learned from this incident, which is the purpose of this forum. Scuba Dom, you are to be applauded for your courage in coming forward. I would encourage all posters to put themselves in his situation. He's reading this and thinking of his wife. Act with compassion, please. Think of what you would say if you were face to face with him rather than behind a computer screen, where sometimes ego can outpace knowledge, experience, and empathy for the person on the receiving end of your comments.

 

[Thalassamania]

Zen: Shoulda, woulda, coulda. Yeah, I can see the captain, probably an overweight, middle-aged guy jumping in 5-footers to try to save someone. He did exactly as you said. He did what he could to help the victim without causing two deaths. Just because a captain can run a boat doesn't mean that he is an accomplished rescue diver. Get a life.

And what is inherent in 5 foot seas that would prevent a middle-aged, overweight guy who possess a modicum of competence from effecting a successful rescue? Frankly, I suspect that the additional 40 years of water experience make me quite a bit more capable than I was in my 20s.

What the Captain did was clearly not adequate, and if he was not prepared to mount an adequate response, then he should have made plans, and equipped and/or staffed for such a contingency.

 

[Garrobo]

Thalassamania: Yeah, in your dreams. I've dove the Eagle about 50 times in the last four years and there are some ripping currents out there. Sometimes the mooring buoy is below the surface plus waves. It would wear out a young, strong, athletic type to try to go in after someone in these currents. I can just see a 100 pound girl with 50-60 pounds of gear trying to get back on the boat under those conditions especially with the limited knowledge and experience that this one had. And as far as the jerks who are putting down Key Dives because of this one incident you all also need to get a life. There have been a half dozen fatalities in the last couple years on boats belonging to some of the better dive operators in the Upper Keys and I don't hear anyone putting them down. I've dove with Key Dives at least 30 times in the last four years also and they are one of the best outfits in the Upper Keys. And as far as Dom's tragic experience, he wasn't there either. He was below the water. So let's stick to the facts and laws in these cases, not personal opinions and theories. The one thing that does upset me in this instance is that a diver with this limited amount of experience was allowed to make this dive in the weather conditions in which it was made. Never should have happened.

 

[Jax]

If I could ask for a pause in the flying flames, please . . . :blinking:

Garrobo says " . . . a diver with this limited amount of experience was allowed to make this dive . . ."

So . . . as an adult in the USofA, why does someone say "allow"?


Others (but not Floridians!) say the Captain has responsibility of the divers at the surface . . .

Ergo, from a Floridian and preferably one with knowledge of Florida dive rules / regs / laws -- when is a Captain "responsible" (and I dislike that term because I believe we have too much loss of self-responsibility now) for the divers of his boat?

 

[merxlin]

....The one thing that does upset me in this instance is that a diver with this limited amount of experience was allowed to make this dive in the weather conditions in which it was made. Never should have happened.

I'm curious who you think should have stopped the diver from making this trip? If the captain runs the charter, shouldn't he have been the one to say they couldn't dive? If a dive shop or instructor charters the boat and he is just ferrying the divers to and from a dive site, does he have any obligation to make sure the divers he is taking there are adequately trained to make that dive, or is that solely the responsibility of whoever booked the charter?

FWIW, I agree we as divers are responsible for our diving, and I am responsible for jumping in if I choose to do so. But what about once I get back to the boat? Does a professional have any responsibility once divers get back to the boat?

 

[Garrobo]

Flames? I don't see anyone flaming anyone. Don't be so edgy. But: OK, you asked. My thoughts are that the dive shop operator should have never "let", "allowed", or whatever term rubs you the wrong way, these two inexperienced divers on his/her boat to make this dive this day under the current weather and seas conditions. The operator has this discretion. Also, the captain has the right to refuse anyone diving off the boat he is operating if he thinks it to be unsafe. I would think that the captain was relying on the operator's opinion in this case. Before I was AOW certified and had quite a few deep and wreck dives on my log most dive operators would check my log book, or at least ask, to see if I had the experience to dive the dives that they had scheduled for that day. Those of you who have this machismo attitude toward diving probably wouldn't understand this. I think it would be a good idea both from a liability standpoint and to ensure the safety of the entire group going out that day.----------- As an example, would you let your 16 year old daughter take the family car out on an icy winter road at night even though she had a valid driver license, a licensed driver in the car and yet she had never drivin in icy conditions? I think not.

 

[DandyDon]

I've dived the Eagle and other Keys Wrecks several times in past years and most of the Ops would take anyone with OW card. One would require AOW or an Instructor, but this couple was with an Inst on AOW training. I still have a problem with the Inst separating the divers, sending him down alone as I asked about earlier.

Some Ops may not go at all in 5 ft seas, but I've been out in worse there. Sounds like the lady was in better shape than I have been since I started diving. I just do not recognize a cause for the accident? Was it mentioned why she aborted the dive, without notifying her husband?

 

[SC_Hoaty]

OK, you asked. My thoughts are that the dive shop operator should have never "let", "allowed", or whatever term rubs you the wrong way, these two inexperienced divers on his/her boat to make this dive this day under the current weather and seas conditions. Before I was AOW certified and had quite a few deep and wreck dives on my log most dive operator would check my log book, or at least ask, to see if I had the experience to dive the dives that they had scheduled for that day. Those of you who have the machismo attitude toward diving probably wouldn't understand this. I think it would be a good idea both from a liability standpoint and to ensure the safety of the entire group going out that day.

I have bolded a portion of what was written. My experience has been that if a diver did not have sufficient or recent experience, that they needed to have an instructor or other professional accompany them.

It has been my understanding that Scuba Dom and his wife had contracted with Key Dives to provide an instuctor for the purpose of completing dives towards their AOW certification. In other words, they knew they were going beyond their previous experience, and were there to receive the experience and instruction to add to their skills and capabilities.

When viewed from this perspective, I think even more of the responsibility falls upon the paid professionals. This was not simply "one more charter" - it was paid instruction.

Perhaps Scuba Dom can confirm this understanding.

 

[Scuba_Dom]

@DandyDon - Why she aborted the dive is something we'll never know.

@SC_Hoaty - We specifically went there for AOW training. It was not a pleasure dive.

 

[Jax]

Flames? I don't see anyone flaming anyone. Don't be so edgy. But: OK, you asked. My thoughts are that the dive shop operator should have never "let", "allowed", or whatever term rubs you the wrong way, these two inexperienced divers on his/her boat to make this dive this day under the current weather and seas conditions. The operator has this discretion. Also, the captain has the right to refuse anyone diving off the boat he is operating if he thinks it to be unsafe. I would think that the captain was relying on the operator's opinion in this case. Before I was AOW certified and had quite a few deep and wreck dives on my log most dive operators would check my log book, or at least ask, to see if I had the experience to dive the dives that they had scheduled for that day. Those of you who have this machismo attitude toward diving probably wouldn't understand this. I think it would be a good idea both from a liability standpoint and to ensure the safety of the entire group going out that day.----------- As an example, would you let your 16 year old daughter take the family car out on an icy winter road at night even though she had a valid driver license, a licensed driver in the car and yet she had never drivin in icy conditions? I think not.

Here, again, you're mixing responsibilities. I am responsible for my 16-year-old daughter and my car. Period. If she were 18 living under my roof at my cost, she follows my rules, or she leaves.

But an adult? You may urge whatever discretion you wish, but if an adult chooses a course of action, s/he is responsible to the law and her/his Maker.

Which is why I followed with the question on Florida law . . . The law could say others have responsibility.