Diver dies in Islamorada

[UnderSeaBumbleBee]

Flames? I don't see anyone flaming anyone. Don't be so edgy. But: OK, you asked. My thoughts are that the dive shop operator should have never "let", "allowed", or whatever term rubs you the wrong way, these two inexperienced divers on his/her boat to make this dive this day under the current weather and seas conditions. The operator has this discretion. Also, the captain has the right to refuse anyone diving off the boat he is operating if he thinks it to be unsafe. I would think that the captain was relying on the operator's opinion in this case.

Might suggest you hold up a mirror to see the one flaming. I understand your loyalty to someone that you have done business with and would like to continue to do business with and support.

However, when a customer dies utilizing the services of a particular business, they lose some of that "hey let's give em the benefit of the doubt. They have been in business for a long time and I really like em"

Anyone at anytime regardless of how great a track record they have can screw up and find themselves in a position where the are negligent.

In this case it appears that a court of law if engaged based on what we know would very likely find the instructor and the captain at fault.

The instructor should have made sure his student made it onto the boat. He also should not have waived his other student/husband back down. He should have urged him upon contact to return to the surface. He should not have waived off the interested party that wished to make sure his wife was on the boat safely.

And if you read the accident threads for very long, you will come across many "trust me" deaths and dives. If the conditions were not suitable for these inexperienced divers, then the instructor should have thumbed in the first place, but certainly after one of the students thumbed it.

 

[gryder]

Scuba Dom, thank you for letting us know what happened that day. The thought of what you've been through is truly heartbreaking. I've been a viewer of ScubaBoard for quite a while but resist the urge to post here because of the place the threads often end up. But in this case, I wanted to tell you that last night I sat down with my dive buddy and told him about your wife and what happened to her that day. We discussed at length what we would do if we found ourselves in the same situation and how best to manage the things that went so wrong that cost your wife her life.

You've made a difference. I am so sorry for your loss.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

Zen: Shoulda, woulda, coulda. Yeah, I can see the captain, probably an overweight, middle-aged guy jumping in 5-footers to try to save someone. He did exactly as you said. He did what he could to help the victim without causing two deaths. Just because a captain can run a boat doesn't mean that he is an accomplished rescue diver. Get a life.

The reports say that there were more than him on board. They report crew members. Their job as boat operators is to ensure that there Is someone physically capable to enact assistance or rescue when needed. It was obviously needed.
And if the captain is not capable of affecting rescue, they better have someone who is. And as for the ,"get a life," comment, this type of nasty comment has no place on this thread, yet you have made such before.

As far as this is concerned: Your statement is inaccurate according to maritime law. The captain does have a responsibility once the diver is on the surface. Look to the recent Drifting Dan case here in CA. A captain was held responsible even though he had no other responsibilities on deck (There were DM's on board handling the divers in the water).

Yep, the duty of care.

And what is inherent in 5 foot seas that would prevent a middle-aged, overweight guy who possess a modicum of competence from effecting a successful rescue? Frankly, I suspect that the additional 40 years of water experience make me quite a bit more capable than I was in my 20s.

What the Captain did was clearly not adequate, and if he was not prepared to mount an adequate response, then he should have made plans, and equipped and/or staffed for such a contingency.

Absolutely. And the reports all state that there were more crew topside than him.

Flames? I don't see anyone flaming anyone. Don't be so edgy. But: OK, you asked. My thoughts are that the dive shop operator should have never "let", "allowed", or whatever term rubs you the wrong way, these two inexperienced divers on his/her boat to make this dive this day under the current weather and seas conditions. The operator has this discretion. Also, the captain has the right to refuse anyone diving off the boat he is operating if he thinks it to be unsafe. I would think that the captain was relying on the operator's opinion in this case. Before I was AOW certified and had quite a few deep and wreck dives on my log most dive operators would check my log book, or at least ask, to see if I had the experience to dive the dives that they had scheduled for that day. Those of you who have this machismo attitude toward diving probably wouldn't understand this. I think it would be a good idea both from a liability standpoint and to ensure the safety of the entire group going out that day.----------- As an example, would you let your 16 year old daughter take the family car out on an icy winter road at night even though she had a valid driver license, a licensed driver in the car and yet she had never drivin in icy conditions? I think not.

This statement puts responsibility right back to captain and crew. The instructor should have thumbed the dives, the captain and crew should have called the boat.
Reflection is always clearer.
I feel for all involved. The captain and crew are not bad people. They will have to live with this also. It is a tragedy on all fronts. The only thing they can do is learn from this and never make those same errors again. The price is far too high.

 

[Tricia]

Scuba Dom,

From your very first post, I have been impressed with your willingness to contribute to help others and very grateful that you have shared what happened with us. Then I saw this post re the fin hand-off:

I have since been on other dive boats and a live a board. Some have you place them on your wrist another had you kneel on the last rung and hand them up. On that trip like our prior trips on that boat (Aug 09) you were to hand them off then go up the ladder.

I take this to mean you have continued to dive after this horrible accident? For that, I am in AWE of you! I doubt that I (or many others, especially new divers like yourself) would have the courage to keep diving after an event like this.

My sincere condolences,

Tricia

 

[Scuba_Dom]

We discussed at length what we would do if we found ourselves in the same situation and how best to manage the things that went so wrong that cost your wife her life.

Thank you, if by sharing what I know makes a difference with just one person, than it was worthwhile for me to post the information.

 

[Scuba_Dom]

For Tricia and others who may be wondering the same thing and if the moderators will bear with me and allow me to go off topic a little I would like to tell you a story. My wife and I "Lived for the day" our 11 years together on this earth were the best times in our lives. While we were not rich we did things together, travel etc... and while most of the time it was done on the cheap. The point was we lived to experience life and we both loved the water.

At the age of 50 years, Aviva wanted to fulfill a dream, that dream was to scuba dive. So we got certified as OW divers and planned a vacation in the Keys. It was a truly amazing experience, as divers we get to see things that most people will never see. After that first trip we decided to continue our training. Hence why we went back to the Keys.

Aviva was the stronger of us when I came to diving, when we dove alone together, she was always making sure I was checking my air and depth that we did our buddy checks etc... She was always looking out for me. About 4 weeks after she died I passed our local dive shop and had the feeling that I needed to stop in. They offered me use of the pool and even offered me a DM if I wanted to go out to the lake for a few dives. The following Saturday I went and dove in the pool to see if I could still do it. Hesitant I got in and almost instantaneous felt at peace I could hear her in my mind telling me check you air, relax, breathe. She was still with me.

I knew then, that I could not stop diving. After that I joined a local group that dives the lake and in Aug 2010 I took my first trip to back to the ocean. A live a board in Catalina island. Under the water I could feel her with me. After that trip, I found the best way to honor her was to continue to live life the best I could and to continue to learn.

When I got home, I signed up to "Go Pro" and I am also taking DAN classes to also become a Diving Emergency Specialist

Almost 8 months have gone by and I still wake up back on the stride most morning. But when I dive I am at peace because I know she is with me and still watching out for me.

 

[Duke Dive Medicine]

And thus should the thread end. There are 23 pages of batting this back and forth. The lesson has been learned and the dead horse flogged, sometimes gracefully and sometimes with an appalling lack of taste and manners. Let it go, folks. There will be another case to discuss soon enough.

 

[ScubaSteve]

And thus should the thread end.

Then [-]perform your Moderator Duties[/-] use your Moderator powers and close the thread. Or am I missing something?

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Sorry it came accross harsh but it really seems silly for a Moderator to complain about a thread and do nothing about it.

 

[cruiser]

He did what he could to help the victim without causing two deaths.

Could you elaborate? What did he do to help the victim? (Maybe I missed something.)

 

[Cave Diver]

And thus should the thread end. There are 23 pages of batting this back and forth. The lesson has been learned and the dead horse flogged, sometimes gracefully and sometimes with an appalling lack of taste and manners. Let it go, folks. There will be another case to discuss soon enough.

Ah young Modawan, you've much to learn about dead horses.

Then [-]perform your Moderator Duties[/-] use your Moderator powers and close the thread. Or am I missing something?

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Sorry it came accross harsh but it really seems silly for a Moderator to complain about a thread and do nothing about it.

only 88 posts and someones already a moderator?


EDIT: I guess that means Jax will be an SENIOR ADVISOR next week!

Not the place for it guys.