Diver dies at Molokai on Maui dive boat

[whysocold]

It is important for clarity. The previous discussion focused on CCR divers (although deco was probably what was intended, CCR was what was stated). Discussion of a solution requires as clear and unambiguous a problem definition as possible if it is not to go down rat holes. That definition is an important first step.

Actually, you make a good point and I concede. I was assumed by that everyone knew that the issue in this case was that the CCRs have deco obligations.

Another contributing factor is that the CCR divers in question usually film on their own. The procedure on abnormal day is that the CCR divers are dropped off, the OC divers do a dive, the OC divers have lunch, the OC divers do a 2nd dive, and then the CCR divers are picked up.

While there is a designated pickup point for the CCR divers, they usually pick a place to be dropped and then have a long time to work their way to the pickup point. During that time, there really isn't a way to know their location making recall (if there was not a deco obligation) difficult.

Given the length of time the CCR divers stay down on this dive, it seems that the dive boat could have gone to Molikia or Maui, dropped off the diver, and been back to the designated pickup point without the CCR divers even knowing that the boat was gone.

 

[whysocold]

In what way were her posts all over the place? They seem pretty clear, concise, and consistent to me, and she answered the questions that were asked of her.

I understand skwirl's point to an extent. Tonight, Megan told me that she feels like she is under attack from employees from the dive shop (see Levi's comment calling her pathetic in the screenshots, and both Erica and Nick basically saying that she doesn't have the right to comment on the topic) but also from people on SB (questioning if the incident really happened, if she had a grudge, etc). Her posts are overly emotional and not as focused as we would all hope. I think that this has been overwhelming for her. However, I have spoken to her at length about the incident and I feel confident of her account. For what that's worth.

 

[whysocold]

Every other diver has a camera, many divers have cell phones onboard the boat, I implore divers to video emergency situations, it only makes things better for the victim's family and the dive operator afterwards.

I asked about this. She says that she did not film because it felt disrespectful to the deceased.

 

[eelnoraa]

Given the length of time the CCR divers stay down on this dive, it seems that the dive boat could have gone to Molikia or Maui, dropped off the diver, and been back to the designated pickup point without the CCR divers even knowing that the boat was gone.

It is ideally possible, but it is an extremely bad idea to leave divers on a remote dive site without some prior contingency arrangement. A experienced dive op would have make such an arrangement in briefing, especially when the boat has both tech group and rec group. In the interest of this thread, we don't know if such arrangement was made, and did the situation fall into this prior arrangement. But like other mentioned, having both tech and rec groups on the same boat to a remote dive side, the op must be willing to take a lot of risks.

As much as I appreciate OP share this accident detail with us, I think let's not do the finger pointing at this moment. I am sure the crew at Lahaina are very upset about such a event, the blaming game isn't going to make anything better. Maybe focus on what can be improve should be the theme.

 

[whysocold]

Fair enough. But I didn't indent to finger point with that comment. I trying to discuss a possible course of action in an emergency like this.

I believe that I mentioned in a previous post that the CCR divers had expressed their wishes to be left behind in the event of an emergency. What isn't clear is if the owner of Lahaina Divers agreed to do this or not. I know that these contingencies were never discussed during dive briefings at the site.

Would anyone expect the coast guard to direct the captain to remain at the site until a coast guard boat could arrive?

 

[KevinNM]

The typical answer seems to be the boat drops a buoy tied to the wreck as an upline and leaves their chase boat and a DM with a radio, and they get someone else heading out to pick up their divers as they head in. But it varies a lot by operation and situation. If you are way out in the middle of nowhere (like 115 miles off the coast) you wait for the USCG helo or your divers.

 

[eelnoraa]

It is easy to say anything after the fact. But as a boat captain, he has to make the judgement call at that spot. Leaving the CCR divers, could means the lost of the CCR divers if for whatever reason, current, bad weather, .. when the CCR divers have a problem when they surface. It is a very difficult decision.

But I do think that allowing tech and rec group on the same boat, the procedure for this kind of situation should be iron out before departure.

 

[whysocold]

The typical answer seems to be the boat drops a buoy tied to the wreck as an upline and leaves their chase boat and a DM with a radio, and they get someone else heading out to pick up their divers as they head in. But it varies a lot by operation and situation. If you are way out in the middle of nowhere (like 115 miles off the coast) you wait for the USCG helo or your divers.

In this case, there isn't a wreck involved. I believe that there are mooring balls, but I'm not positive. The dive boat is a typical vacation diver boat, as you can see in the photo (one of their two boats, I'm not sure which was involved), and there is no chase boat to leave behind.

This dive site is nowhere near 100 miles out, it's approximately 30 miles from the Lahaina harbor. The driving time is about 45-60 minutes. It is minutes from the Molokai coast but I don't know where it is in relation to Molokai's harbor.

 

[Shaun Delport]

A few thoughts on prevention

1. Have Data Buoys installed at reef.

Current speed, direction and water temp will be made available to LDC's
LDC to inform customers of conditions to allow them to opt out if necessary
​

2. Assess customers based on Data Buoy information

Certification, Experience, Physical condition, Age, Up-to-date medical certificate by diving Doctor
This information should be obtained at booking the dive.
I always carry yearly medical with me when booking dives. I have also opted out of leading dives given the data buoy info due to my age and the cert/experience level of other customers.
​

3. Pre-launch medical equipment checklist.

To be filed for service records​

4. All crew members aware of their respective roles ICE

Depending on type of emergency, designated crew member will take charge.
Some diving professionals have the training for BLS/EFR and Rescue, but, never having had the real life emergency experience, will tend to stand back due to lack confidence.
​

5. Have at least one permanent crew member, Skipper and/or DM, to get ALS.

Skipper always on the boat and DM will continue while Skipper is driving.
​

6. Have an automatic BP Monitor on board, $50

1 minute to determine if there is a heart beat. Respiration or CPR will be administered depending on result.
​

7. Have a signal/alarm device to recall all divers ICE.

Type of device and steps to be taken will be communicated to all in the pre-dive briefing.
​

8. All competition between LDC's to cease immediately following an emergency.

Pick up divers of DC in emergency, quicker response time to shore
Deploy boats to boat with emergency if boat cannot leave divers or USCG is not available
​

 

[Dan]

Maybe this is a minor point, but it's not CCR vs. OC that was the issue, it's tech vs. rec. The problem was that the divers in the water had a deco obligation, not that they were on CCR. It would have been the same issue if they were diving doubles.

Assuming that they were far enough away from the boat that they couldn't hear the usual weight banging on the ladder recall system, an OC tech diver's bubbles wouldn't have been very helpful. It's fine if the operator says no planned deco stops because of operational issues like this, but as a CCR diver, I would resent being kept off of a dive boat if I was going to stick to NDLs.

Agree. They are bad choices of words. I should use the word recreational (rec) for the open circuit (OC) with no decompression limit (NDL) dives. Likewise, I should use the word technical (tech) divers instead of closed circuit rebreather (CCR) divers, who tend to do decompression (deco) dives. However, I think you all know what I mean.