Diver Death in Cayman

[Blackwood]

Being narc's at 72 ft is, I think, unusual.

Shallowest that I've noticed appreciable narcosis (affecting my memory and focus, specifically manifesting itself in the inability to follow a compass heading and keep track of my gas supply) was about 80 feet.

Blackwood, You have more training than I have. And you have every business being here as anyone else does. We are all here to learn from this and talk and make mistakes and corrections. Lord knows I have made mine and the board has been kind to me for all of the good and bad. Thank you for your consideration of my feelings.

Well, what I meant by "as far as it goes" is that the discussion has become about the actions and responsibilities of a dive pro, about which I'm wholly unqualified to comment (compared to, say, Thalassamania, who I believe has been involved in dive leadership at high levels for longer than I've been alive).

 

[GaryLee]

You told me what I needed to know that clarifies your position.

So PilotFish
Which Qualification do you want to take away?

THe PADI DM One
My Naui Instr One
My TDI Inst One

Which one PilotFish
Which One

 

[Thalassamania]

So you've dived with Divers Down
Walked into the shop
Asked to dive
Been given two, not one but two dives to make sure you were OK to dive
then taken on a standard Cayman Dive.
THe shop telling you what the dive is you;ll be doing when you ask

Guess what,
I Have
and
yes I might make changes to the way things are done from a non professional point of view but I guarantee you.
This particular incident will not have any legal ramifications on the dive centre involved.

Yup ... he's a shill for the shop. I should have guessed it. Probably used to work there.

The lack of any legal ramifications for the dive center (beyond the problem of breaking the lookout on the boat law) is not justice, that's legality.

So PilotFish
Which Qualification do you want to take away?

THe PADI DM One
My Naui Instr One
My TDI Inst One

Which one PilotFish
Which One

If you were the DM involved, I'd look to pull them all.

 

[GaryLee]

Yup ... he's a shill for the shop. I should have guessed it. Probably used to work there.

The lack of any legal ramifications for the dive center (beyond the problem of breaking the lookout on the boat law) is not justice, that's legality.


If you were the one involve I pull them all.

a SHILL No. Is it now law for the dive boats to have a person on the boat at all times? I don't know. If it is then the store will hopefully get what they desrve.
Anyone want to quote.. I only know some of the UK Law on this which by the way covers the Caymans.

Would that have made a difference in this instance . No.
In another instance, perhaps and if thats the case then there needs to be some serious reprocussions.

 

[bsee65]

Do you guys need mommy to come back and send this back to whine and cheese? Let's try to stick to proposing and criticising theories rather than individuals. Everyone posting here has some reason to do so, but that shouldn't matter. Right or wrong. Probable, feasible, likely or impossible. A wise or a dangerous action. These are the things that should matter, not the motives of the poster.

 

[GaryLee]

Do you guys need mommy to come back and send this back to whine and cheese? Let's try to stick to proposing and criticising theories rather than individuals. Everyone posting here has some reason to do so, but that shouldn't matter. Right or wrong. Probable, feasible, likely or impossible. A wise or a dangerous action. These are the things that should matter, not the motives of the poster.

Fair comment.

 

[Thalassamania]

One has to wonder about the motives of the poster when (at worst) he makes things up out of the whole cloth or (at best) insists on the relevance of his own previous unrevealed experience at the dive center by referencing things that are not in evidence. Wondering about the motives of someone who does not come up front and say, "I dove (or worked at, or hung out at) that shop and here's what I observed ..." is perfectly appropriate since they present the appearance of having a hidden agenda that has nothing whatsoever to do with the incident.

 

[GaryLee]

One has to wonder about the motives of the poster when (at worst) he makes things up out of the whole cloth or (at best) insists on the relevance of his own previous unrevealed experience at the dive center by referencing things that are not in evidence. Wondering about the motives of someone who does not come up front and say, "I dove (or worked at, or hung out at) that shop and here's what I observed ..." is perfectly appropriate since they present the appearance of having a hidden agenda that has nothing whatsoever to do with the incident.

I know the Caymans
I've dived there
I know the store
I have met people there (Not the person in queston)
I have second hand experience of this incident. (that's all you'll get at the moment)
I've posted about the Autopsy but noone is interested in that so far

I've also dived with other schools in the Caymans
I have a strong interest in PADI
I am on the Dominican Republic Course Director Training Course
My Name is Gary Lee
My PADI Number is 615839


Get over yourself
I am interested in the truth

So my direction to find it isn't the same as yours, Big Deal. I am totally up front and have been with who I am and what I do.

 

[pilot fish]

What you probably got was a CO2, carbon dioxide, build up, as I did? You were not expelling enough of the carbon dioxide with stong exhales. You were breathing shallow and rapid, is my guess, as I was. That intensifies narcosis, if you are deep enough, and then you have two things going on. very dark and panic filled. None of this was known to me before it happened to me. I found this out from an instructor when I described it all to him. It is my guess that this might have also happen to the deceased diver, fighting his extra weighting, and panic took hold of him and he lost it. Just a guess.

maybe someone who understand this better than I can explain it better than I did?

Anxiety builds on you and makes it worse. It is my fear that it will take hold of me again when I'm iin a cave and very deep.

I was over-exerting like a maniac which brought it on very fast. I was at 87 ft not 97. I also was unable to figure out how to work my inflator hose and could not read my gauges until I reached between 60-65 ft. The numbers on my computer made no sense at all.

The next day on a slope at 72 ft I experienced the same symptoms of not being able to work my gauges and read my computer. I ascended a few feet and could read them again. I was not over-exerting on this dive and did not feel the extreme sense of panic but, felt a little stressed as the symptoms came on.

I did 5 more dives that week (all shallow above 60) with no issues. I've had 250+ since and I do still notice being narced at 90+ but, it is slight and since I know what it is now, have no issue with it. Proper weighting/buoyancy and descending too fast were the main problem with those dives.

 

[bsee65]

One has to wonder about the motives of the poster when (at worst) he makes things up out of the whole cloth or (at best) insists on the relevance of his own previous unrevealed experience at the dive center by referencing things that are not in evidence. Wondering about the motives of someone who does not come up front and say, "I dove (or worked at, or hung out at) that shop and here's what I observed ..." is perfectly appropriate since they present the appearance of having a hidden agenda that has nothing whatsoever to do with the incident.

I appreciate that, but isn't it enough to discredit the post by pointing to the fact that contradicts the bogus statement? Discrediting the statement should be enough to discredit the poster, especially if it becomes a pattern, without leaping to conclusions about motive.

I do agree, though, that it is honorable/classy to disclose any personal connection to a story that might be seen to create bias and a preference for a particular outcome in spite of facts to the contrary.