Diver Death in Cayman

[Cave Diver]

Can you link it? is that the one were a guy goes on a rescue dive and goes unconscious due to over-exertion at deep depth?

I found the video, but will not link it in here without FosterBoxermoms permission out of respect for her feelings.

If someone wants the link, send me a PM.

 

[ScubaSteve]

No, it was a guy that did a deep dive and at some point appears very narced. Erratic movements, bouncing off the bottom, etc. There are several breaks in the video where people interject comments and speculation on what happened. I'll see if I can find it.

Given the context of what is being discussed in this thread and the people that are involved, please have the respect I know you have and DO NOT post the link here. PM it to people but it would likely be very traumatic to watch that for the OP.

Looks like you beat me to it CD...never any doubt

 

[Blackwood]

Can you link it? is that the one were a guy goes on a rescue dive and goes unconscious due to over-exertion at deep depth?

I don't think it's anything the OP needs to see at this point in time.

I've never lost a dive buddy, and I find it hard to watch.

That said, I don't think it would necessarily be a bad idea to make it requisite material for new divers. Sorta like Red Asphalt for people learning to drive.

 

[Cave Diver]

I don't think it's anything the OP needs to see at this point in time.

I've never lost a dive buddy, and I find it hard to watch.

That said, I don't think it would necessarily be a bad idea to make it requisite material for new divers. Sorta like Red Asphalt for people learning to drive.

Or the Deceptively Easy Way to Die video from NSS/CDS on overhead environments.

 

[Web Monkey]

Because in my mind WHAT DM WOULD LEAVE A DIVER BEHIND? Is there one on this board that would?

A lot of DMs leave everybody behind. They're at the front of the group looking for cool stuff and just hope everybody catches up at some point.

It's not right, it's just how it is.

Terry

 

[fosterboxermom]

A lot of DMs leave everybody behind. They're at the front of the group looking for cool stuff and just hope everybody catches up at some point.

It's not right, it's just how it is.

Terry

I guess it depends on the situation you are in.

 

[wcd143]

in all my dm experience I normally have a buddy MINE with the dive one of us bringing up the rear. any penetrations are by CERTIFIED divers all possible safety equipment pony bottles /bail out bottles reels of course I take 3 flashlights my steel 130 an aluminum 80 ..first in ..last out..roll call.. safety stop with bottles I wont fiddle around but ***** happens . It is the nature of the beast. I pray for all of us and mourn the losses with you.......

 

[Riger]

It is possible that the DM/DG may have got the wrong impression when the signals were going back and forth about buddies and OK's etc..? Perhaps the message he "got" was that the missing "partner" was OK. (Absolute speculation of course)

No matter what he could have done better in the briefing and choice of dive site, perhaps he would have reacted differently if he thought/perceived that Brendan was missing.

Thoughts?

Best Regards
Richard

 

[Thalassamania]

I don't think that taking an experienced diver's (your) tank and reg and forcing an inexperienced diver (Pam) to share air on an ascent with a non-professional is necessarily the best thing to do. As was said about 70+ pages ago, the first goal in a rescue is to not make two victims, and even that refers to the rescuer becoming a victim, not some third party.

I doubt that would be considered 'safe protocol' by most any DM trainer.

Besides, as you pointed out above, "WE" left him and "NO ONE" went to look for him. If you had plenty of air and thought that the appropriate action was to initiate a search for a lost diver at an unknown depth, why didn't you hand Pam off to Matthew and descend yourself?



That's still very confusing. I'm not surprised that a DM with such a splintered group would lose track of someone.



This is all very tragic and unfortunate. If it were me, I'd try to put it past me. Laying the blame on someone won't bring your friend back, nor will it (likely) affect the dive industry in a positive way.

The first goal is to not lose track of any of the divers so that all this speculation about how to conduct a hairy chested rescue is moot.

Blackwood,

You, I, or at least a half dozen others participating in this thread would probably have broken off from the group and searched for the diver when he was first discovered missing and attempted to rescue him, even if he'd been found at an extreme depth.

I understand where your question is coming from, but I'm not sure it's very fair to ask of the poster. She is most likely just venting from her sense of loss, frustration, helplessness, etc. She's already stated that she wasn't comfortable going deep, that's why she stayed at 60'. Also, even though the groups expectations of the care from the dive guide were higher than what was provided, many people would still feel reluctant to leave that care and search on their own.

Once again, a search, a rescue, whatever ... it's window dressing that distracts from what I see as a failure on the part of the DM to first chose an appropriate site and second to keep track of the divers that were with him.

Actually, I've just seen this is your first post and also that you are a Course Director for CMAS and you teach Instructors.

Something doesn't smell right here. Brand new to the board, teaches instructors, is a Course Director and made the above statements withoug reading the posts....

I think we have a PLANT guys........

Profile does not seem right to me.

That depends on his role as DM.

Is his role to act as a guardian? If so, yah, sure.

But if his role of the more common 'guide people around a site and point out the places where the pretty fish often hide', then not so much.

When you're diving with certified divers, at some point you have to let them make their own decisions. Foster is a certified diver who isn't comforatable diving to 100 feet, and yet opted to get into the water with a floor of (at least) 100 feet and hang around at 60. Should the DM had said to her, "no, either you dive with me or you don't dive at all."? I'll bet for every 4 times you do that, you lose 3.5 paying customers.

I can't see why they were taken to that site, it doesn't sound like any of the divers wanted that kind of depth and the majority of the group was either unqualified or active against such a dive.

The point is, DM or DG, no matter, he never should have taken anyone in that group to 100 ft and never should have split the group. We all stay at 60 ft. Who in that group was going to object to that?

Having to split the group just goes to show how inappropriate the site choice was.

If you continue your training as you've said you want to, one of the things that you'll learn in a rescue course is the best time to prevent an accident is before you even get in the water.

Awareness of what's going on around you, clues in other divers mannerisms, gear, etc. can tip you off to potential problems and who may experience problems during the dive long before it starts.

There's gold in that thar' quote: "the best time to prevent an accident is before you even get in the water" and by extension the next best time to prevent an accident is before it occurs.

fosterboxermom - it has already been said, but I will echo the words that you didn't leave him there. For you own well being I hope you can come to terms with this ... from second hand sources it sounds like the DM is pretty beaten up over this whole thing and I'm sure he is asking himself what he could have done differently (a lot of things) - however that is his cross to bear - not yours. A few posters have indicated they would be willing to attempt a rescue to that depth but keep in mind that these are extrordinary divers with a pile of experience that have come to terms with what they are willing and not willing to do.

I was talking to my DM class last night about this incident and asked them what they would have done in that situation. One of the most interesting comments came from one candidate who is full cave, CCR certified, and hypoxic trimix certified with several dozen dives in the 275-300' range. His answer - he wasn't going below 120' in that situation. Please realize that at the point that Matthew went missing - you were powerless to help.

If I had to conduct such a rescue, and it it succeeded I'd still feel like a failure and a fool for letting myself get into a situation where I was required to put myself that far out on a limb ... yes, it's possible, yes, it's not big deal given my level of deep air experience, and yes it's "farm animal stupid" to get yourself into such a situation.

Your candidate who would not go below 120 is a rather common phenomena these days, and an understandable one. We can argue about the reasonableness of such a decision, but the reality of diving today is that folks do not get the deep air experience that we old timers got ... and, on ballance, I'd say that's a good thing. I like the fact that your candidate had thought about it and decided on a firm number.

Smart man.

Every action underwater must be addressed in context. What is the situation and what are my resources, capabilities and limitations?

It's very easy to say "he should have e-dived down to find the victim." It's something very different to actually dive down to find the victim.

Again, why are we discussing the best or worst ways to rescue a diver that no one was vigilant enough to notice went missing?

I gave them the scenerio - a group of divers with mixed levels of training and experience in warm water and good to excellent vis. Steep slopping bottom - they are the DM - the group has splintered (I didn't tell them why) and at half way they do a count. They are missing a diver - what do they do, what assumptions are they going to make?

They were allowed to ask me any questions to gain more information. The entire exercise lasted about 45 mins.

So it started off as a search and then they had to make the call on what they would have done if they spotted the diver deeper. The candidates made the assumption that after a quick search that if they couldn't spot him in good vis then he likely surfaced. When I asked them what their take would have been if I told them that was not what happened, the conversation turned to how deep they would be willing to try to make a rescue/recovery assuming they spotted him.

Interesting exercise ... but time that might have been more productively spent working on less exciting things like situational awareness and group control.

in all my dm experience I normally have a buddy MINE with the dive one of us bringing up the rear.

That's a prudent approach ... but these guys did not even provide a boat tender.

 

[GaryLee]

How about this.
When everyone signed up for the dive they were told the Depth and the site it was pre planned.
So why even get on the boat in the first place?