Diver Death in Cayman

[Thalassamania]

How about this.
When everyone signed up for the dive they were told the Depth and the site it was pre planned.
So why even get on the boat in the first place?

You're citing "facts" that are not in evidence. If you read carefully you'll find that you are wrong:

I couldn't hand Pam off to Matthew he was at 100 ft and Pam was at 60ft. She didn't want to go that deep and diving with her, her skills were (let's just say she needed more training) I also don't go that deep because I don't have medical clearance and have type 2 DM which I disclosed. Also, I didn't know the slope went off so deep, Matthew didn't explain that in detail I just thought it was a hard bottom we were diving along at a 100ft or a little deeper. I only found that out after the dive. Only Matthew knew that. But had I known the bottom was that deep and there was a deeper spot I would have swan to that location and at least looked down and banged on my tank. We all could have banged our tanks. Whether it would have helped I don't know. What I am saying is nothing was done. What would you have done in my situation? I looked around in the water and didn't see Brendan. And when Matthew continued the Dive I ASSUMED (and I know now you should never assume anything) that someone must have told him Brendan went to the surface and was OK. Because in my mind WHAT DM WOULD LEAVE A DIVER BEHIND? Is there one on this board that would? Unless they know for sure they cannot save that person without killing them self. And we didn't know that. Nothing was done or any attempt was made to stop and access what had just happened.

 

[Blackwood]

I can't see why they were taken to that site, it doesn't sound like any of the divers wanted that kind of depth and the majority of the group was either unqualified or active against such a dive.

That at least some of them went to that depth belies your supposition.

They didn't get there (i.e. 100 feet, not the 300 mark) by mistake, they got there by choice.

Again, why are we discussing the best or worst ways to rescue a diver that no one was vigilant enough to notice went missing?

Because it was suggested that such a (search &) rescue attempt should have been attempted. That suggestion may make its way into court, and I for one wouldn't feel good about it going unchallenged.

 

[fosterboxermom]

Originally Posted by GaryLee
How about this.
When everyone signed up for the dive they were told the Depth and the site it was pre planned.
So why even get on the boat in the first place?

GaryLee, We weren't told when we signed up. We weren't even told on the boat. We were told once we got to the actual dive site. I asked Matthew where we were going and he said "I don't know yet" He started the boat and away we went. He planned the dive on the fly I am guessing. He didn't even know our experience at that point. He learned about everyones experience once the boat was anchored and buoyed. Then we all started telling him what experience we had and chaos hit the fan!

 

[Thalassamania]

That at least some of them went to that depth belies your supposition.

No they got there not by choice but by stupidly playing follow the leader behind an incompetent that they were foolish enough to place their trust in.

They didn't get there (i.e. 100 feet, not the 300 mark) by mistake, they got there by choice.

No, they got to 100 feet by mistake, no doubt about that. The DM made a mistake to take them there, they made a mistake to trust his judgement.

Because it was suggested that such a (search &) rescue attempt should have been attempted. That suggestion may make its way into court, and I for one wouldn't feel good about it going unchallenged.

If there were to be a case brought the claim would be based on the theory that a breach of duty occurred on the part of the Dive Operator and the DM when they were recklessly negligent in permitting the victim to become separated from the group. I don't think that the lack of a "search" or a "rescue" operation would even come into play.

If you want to challenge things in court I suggest that you get qualified as an expert and then get hired by the defense. All your doing here is clouding the issues with what appear to me to be rather illogical constructs that are not even based on the evidence. Stop making stuff up to suit your political/social/legal views and deal just with those "facts" that we have in front of us.

 

[Web Monkey]

The one that wanted to go to 100'?

He should have received the same answer that I got from a dive op in Florida when I had 20-something dives and wanted to do the Spiegel Grove.

"Sorry, but it's beyond your training right now."

Instead we went to a shallow wreck on Key Largo and I had a ball in about 20' of warm sunny water.

Terry

 

[fosterboxermom]

It is possible that the DM/DG may have got the wrong impression when the signals were going back and forth about buddies and OK's etc..? Perhaps the message he "got" was that the missing "partner" was OK. (Absolute speculation of course)

No matter what he could have done better in the briefing and choice of dive site, perhaps he would have reacted differently if he thought/perceived that Brendan was missing.

Thoughts?

Best Regards
Richard

Richard,

Matthew did know Brendan was missing because on the safety line he was trying to communicate with Pam about where her Buddy was and she kept pointing to me. He did this 2 or three times. Then he held up 6 fingers to her and she thought he wanted to know how much air she had so she showed him her gauge because to her (being a new diver, fingers meant air, 6 fingers=1500 psi) he shook his head No again and then shot to the surface. But let me reiterate Pam and I told him........a minimum of 6 if not more times that we were buddying up just her and I alone at 60 ft no one else was in on that conversation not my husband, Brendan, the couple from San Diego, or the Minor. Only Pam and I voiced we were going to 60 ft. So where he thought Brendan was with us at ANY time is beyond us. Unless he was just checking to see if Brendan couldn't handle 100ft but clearly he could see that he was NOT with us and he knew that at the half way mark and then again on the safety line expessing it to Pam.

 

[pilot fish]

How about this.
When everyone signed up for the dive they were told the Depth and the site it was pre planned.
So why even get on the boat in the first place?

Ok, there is a post in this thread that clears that up, they were not told the depth, or even the dive site. They were told what the site was and how deep it was when they were right over it. It seems this mess of a DM pulled it all out of his snorkle.

Now that you know those facts, what does that tell you and how do you feel about this dive site?

 

[pilot fish]

At the very least, this DM needs to loose his cert and never work with divers ever again.

 

[GaryLee]

At the very least, this DM needs to loose his cert and never work with divers ever again.

What Cert?

Which agency was he representing? Get a grip
DiveMaster isn't a particluar cert from one agency.

I've just looked back to find the post from the OP about going into the shop and signing up for the dives. Couldn't find it, it seems to have dissapeared.

Do you really believe that a boat trip to a dive site isn't planned. Crap.
On a livaboard yeah, perhaps: But a trip with 7 divers, one who has mentioned how he wants to dive beyond his training and experience and go deeper. Mmmmm

 

[Riger]

FosterBoxerMom,

I suppose I am trying to work out what the DM/DG was seeing and how he may have been under the wrong impression of what the status was of the divers in the group was. I have been in a situation where, for whatever reason, buddy pairs were switched during the dive or a buddy pair became a threesome due to someone surfacing early, it happens from time to time and I suppose this is not always covered in buddy checks/briefing.

At some point maybe he sees your hubby ascending towards you and makes a connection that Brendan (mis-ident) is joining you, he looks again later and sees that you are now only 2 again and queries you as to your buddy (thinking Brendan) and you give an OK signal, perhaps he is now thinking that Brendan has surfaced and you are showing him that all is OK.

This is all speculation, I am just trying to see it through the DM/DG's eyes and how he may have mis-interpreted events. (This has no bearing on site selection or briefing, I get that.)

Based on you saying that when the penny dropped on the safety line (safety stop?) and he realised you were missing someone, he "shot" to the surface, I have to assume that if he had actually realised and understood that there was a problem (missing customer) during the dive he would have reacted differently than just continuing the dive.

Best Regards
Richard