Diver Death in Cayman

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jclynes, I agree that demoting this topic to the whine and cheese section was an insult to the deceased diver and the serious topic under discussion. I don't belive it was done with that intent. It's easy enough to fix, if more posters feel it should go into General Scuba Discussion, or the Accident thread? I feel more serious minded people might get a chance to voice their opinions then, plus, it would be a A BIG AID FOR NEW DIVERS.

I think it is clear, at this point, if another, more responsible person had led that dive, this poor man would be getting married soon. :depressed: Sorry, this makes me so damn angry!!!!
 
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a) Mod made a mistake demoting thread. First and second hand witness on the thread - not to be wasted. Tidying up would have made more sense - wasted this way. Thread was always going to get heated - unavoidable and not really a problem. I don't think trying to establish some clarity from the confusion of the circumstances/roles/responsibilities is 'whine'.

PM NetDoc. It's his board and he can put anything anywhere.

Terry
 
moving this to whine and cheese was stupid and cowardly.

This is an important subject, virtually every diver that reads this thread, new and old will look at personal responsibility different because of this thread, regrdless of what side of the issue they fall on.

Whine and cheese take away from the seriousness.
 
IMHO;

The legal liability in this matter will probably fall to the DM/DG and the Operator. My opinion is based on all the valid points raised here in this forum as well as the fact that the legal (liability) focus will come from the loved ones of the deceased and other people on the boat who have been exposed to emotional trauma and suffering. PADI, you can be sure, will have their asses covered all the way with the paperwork, so you could not take them on without heavy-duty legal support and $$$. I suspect the thrust of the legal strategy will be focused on the apparent miss-representation of the DG/DM by the operator and the ethical duty of care. Words like "This could have been prevented if the .......

DG was a DM and stated that,
DM acted like a DM,
DM had not exceeded the recommendations for the minimum qualifications in his group,
Operator had not allowed multi qualified divers on a boat with a single DM,
Tour operator had evaluated the operator before recommending the victim
and so forth...."

When you step through the thread, you see bit's and pieces of this unfolding through various "players" already showing their hand somwhat. xxxx, the aggrieved / xxxx, the lawyer / xxxx the PADI representative / xxxx from the dive operator / xxxx, the local expert on conditions etc...

In this sense, this thread should be neither in the accident/incident section nor in the Cheeze and Whine section, it should be in a "legal discussion section".

----------

As far as the accident itself, there are very few facts out there that give us any indication of what actually went wrong with the diver and what (non-admin) events caused this tragedy.

We are all confident that if a novice diver had reached 346' (105m) and then arrived at the surface within 2 minutes of the start of his ascent, that the ascent rate and lack of deco would probably have killed him. Given that this was not planned, there appears to be no disputing that matter. The well delivered commentary by a local diver does provide a possible theory of an incapacitated diver breathing the tank empty and thus providing enough + buoyancy to initiate an ascent. It seems fair to say that once events had reached that point, there was not much that could have been done to prevent his death.

The questions for me are more related to the what happened between 60'(18m) and 130'(40m), how did he become separated from the group? Was he over-weighted? Was there any equipment malfunction (BCD failure)? Did he simply become awestruck by the scenery? loose spacial orientation and realise this at 346'(105m).

There are other procedural questions that arise in an attempt to establish if the training mechanisms that made up the diver's skill set, confidence, knowledge, experience and so on provided a suitable platform to equip this person with the means to manage himself in these situations as they presented themselves.

In this sense, the thread absolutely belongs in the accident/incident section, nothing less. In my opinion however, without active deletion of messages, it would be difficult to keep the discussion focused on the accident side without the legal/liability/blame posters making their points loudly and continuously.

Best Regards

Richard
 
Richard,
Agreed. The thread needs moderation as it is too long winded and would be too daunting to get through and thus the lessons to be learned would be inaccessible to all but the most earnest, or otherwise bored :).

KGirl, I believe, duplicated and cleaned up the thread for the the Watson GBR alleged murder. Which makes it accessible, even if she isn't unbiased (insofar as she's maded up her mind about culpability - which wouldn't do for this thread);

I'll PM NetDoc later and see what he thinks.
 
Whine and cheese take away from the seriousness.

Even out of respect for the deceased, relegating this to whine and cheese, is a bit unsavoury. I can't imagine I'd be best pleased (or my relatives/friends) if I croaked it diving and found my demise languishing around the bowels of board.
 
My thoughts as well. It is not a whine but a plea that this type of accident be understood and prevented from occuring again. This death was sooooooooooooo preventable:depressed:



Even out of respect for the deceased, relegating this to whine and cheese, is a bit unsavoury. I can't imagine I'd be best pleased (or my relatives/friends) if I croaked it diving and found my demise languishing around the bowels of board.
 
Even out of respect for the deceased, relegating this to whine and cheese, is a bit unsavoury. I can't imagine I'd be best pleased (or my relatives/friends) if I croaked it diving and found my demise languishing around the bowels of board.
Where did we get this notion that anyone has the right to control the conversations that people are having about them or their loved ones?

So it's somehow OK to criticize the DM (DG?) and dive op, but people aren't allowed to critique the behavior of this diver, because his relatives/friends might get offended? Really? The only criteria for garnering "respect" is whether or not the person died?

With all the pissing and moaning that's gone on in this thread, IMO "Whine and Cheeze" is the perfect place for it to land.

BTW, I just checked and the "Whine and Cheeze" forum is not on the "robots" exclusion list file that tells search engines like teh evul goog what not to index (but it could be if Pete wanted it to be).
 
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