Diver Death in Cayman

[Riger]

Certification should mean more than that or it is a joke.

There can be no doubt that a DM's responsibilities extend beyond those of a mere water-taxi driver. These responsibilities include briefings regarding local conditions, rules & regs, limitations etc... Additionally in the event of an emergency, the DM should have the wherewithal to arrange rescue and emergency services and provide EFR.

However, your statement should also hold true regarding the divers' certifications; there must be some expectation that a certified diver makes sure he/she has a buddy, does buddy checks, adheres to their own comfort and certification limitations, does not run out of air etc... this must be expected/assumed for all certified divers. Who says the guy with 25 or 30 dives is not less competent than the guy with 8 dives? Should the DM watch them too?

To be clear, I agree that it sounds as though this DM may have been negligent in not apparently taking this matter more seriously when the diver went missing, but when a couple are on a boat together and they appear to be hooking up with an experienced diver, it may not have been obvious that the victim was actually supposed to be with the DM? or, Perhaps there were words exchanged on the boat that were interpreted as "I'll go down to 100' then pop up and join my fiancé an our new friend". What exactly were the signals that were used when the query was raised about the buddy?

Another thing that bothers me is this (and remember that I do not know the site); if the victim managed to get to 100m+, and the rest of the group were about 70m above that depth, where would one start looking for the victim? Even if the dive was thumbed at that time, and the victim popped-up 2 minutes later, what could be done for someone that had just done a non-stop ascent (@ a rate of 150'+/min) from 105m without air?

Sadly, the complete truth of this incident, including all these key bits of information might never be known.

Best Regards
Richard

 

[pilot fish]

Splash, that all true but, as you know, the newbie does not KNOW THE RIGHT QUESTIONS to ask.

 

[ScubaSteve]

This is fun

 

[ScubaSteve]

No one can be responsible for dumbasses.

WAIT A MINUTE!!!! I thought the purpose of this thread was to make sure everybody knew that a DM is wholly and single handedly responsible for every dumbass.

 

[Splash-X]

The isn't hand-holding, coddling or rocket science and your nasty reply was uncalled for.

Terry,

The reply in itself wasn't geared toward the deceased or his friends and family. Several pages back there were posts from divers who were new to the sport and don't know what to expect. There were even replies that someone took a diver down below 85ft and held their had. To further that, everyone has different ideas of what the DM should be doing. Heck, EVERY boat has different roles for their DM. This is why any person planning a trip should do their research on WHAT AM I GETTING.

My point of view isn't that the victim needed his hand held. It is my experience that there are divers who do need a personal guide after certification while they learn they ropes.. These divers should not be left unsupervised and thats a discussion for another thread.


Looking at the accident at hand, was there anything that could have been done PRE-TRIP to better prepare both the deceased and his party for the dive. If his instructor didn't hammer home the limits an OW student should observe then it is my opinion that the tragedy started with the original instructor and the lack of teaching/learning what to and what not to do.

Just as a learners permit is to driving a car, your OW certificate is a learners license to diving.


The students are only as good as the instructor that taught them. A poor instructor who breezes through material with students that barely pass reflects poorly on the entire sport.

 

[The Chairman]

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[jmmcintyre]

It’s very unfortunate what happened in Cayman and I am very sorry for your loose of a friend.

I have been going to Cayman for the past six years and have not come across any acts like this; of course it doesn’t mean things like this don’t happen. Like others have said there are many divers that go through this very country and a small number have only lost there lives. It rarely happens, but when it does its bad for all. Its part of the industry and companies try daily to fix that, and restore the image when things like this happen.

Everyone had some good points about whose fault it is; I think it’s the fault on everyone. When you go diving and you already have a certification you need to have some type of judgment and know your own laws. If you also feel your life is unsafe while diving with a dive operator then speak up and say something, they are not forcing you to be there.

One of the biggest things that made me mad is when “Fosterboxermom” made the comment about not allowing Divers Down to be apart of the post. Let me put it lightly, this post is a general discussion that is read to the world, and it’s also not to just Dive Masters like you say. No one is representing the Dive Operation, or you. We are just a bunch of fellow divers that are contributing advice to you on your post. No one here is the police, investigators, etc. If you want to vent, and gain advice then you have to be ready for face shot on any issue you are providing here. Welcome to the internet! How do you think the Dive Master feels? I am sure he didn’t wake up that morning and attend to hurt your friend like he did. You have to admit you came into this with more speculation and less facts looking for all of the answers in the world, we feel for you, and we are here for everyone.

I think it’s very important for us as divers no matter what level we are to be professional. As we can see a fellow diver has been lost, and we need to remember that. There have been a lot of feelings and judgment put into this post so we need to make sure we respect that and try to understand what he is going through.

On another note I am very curious as I am sure to the other are what the outcome may be. I do hope that it does provide some justice to you, your friend’s family but would also like to see what Divers Down is saying or will be doing about this situation.

 

[Riger]

fosterboxermom,

I appreciate that the details may not all be clear to you, however, are you able to remember any of the following?

- When the DM queried you about the "missing" buddy, you said it was about 10 min into the dive, do you recall if that was about the time that the other (deeper) group reached 100' or soon thereafter?

- Do you recall seeing if the victim did buddy checks (BWRAF) with anyone and if so with whom?

- If you are in contact with the officials, can you try and get a screen-shot of the profile from the computer ? I know this may not be as easy as it sounds, but this may help this discussion from the perspective of what happened (not who did not do what).

Thanks in advance for any info you can provide.

Best Regards

Richard

 

[bsee65]

All well and good, but the general purpose of this board is to think about what could have caused the accident and then figure out what could be done to prevent having this happen to someone else. There's more to doing so than just assigning blame.

If you, as a DM or dive operator, aren't going to take responsibility for hand-holding your customers in the water and you know from experience that some customers expect that you will, then it is irresponsible not to address that issue. Address it at the time of booking and at some point during the dive briefing. Screen your customers because the success of your business depends upon both their safety and satisfaction.

If you, as a diver, want to expand your diving beyond shallow water in ideal conditions, then get the training and experience appropriate to your plans. This can be formal training or mentorship, if you're lucky enough to have a more experienced dive buddy. It can also involve careful self-study while cautiously expanding your limits with a peer buddy.

 

[bsee65]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DandyDon
No one can be responsible for dumbasses.

WAIT A MINUTE!!!! I thought the purpose of this thread was to make sure everybody knew that a DM is wholly and single handedly responsible for every dumbass.

Guys, I think this is out of line. While generally true, in the context of this particular accident, calling the victim a dumbass seems unusually harsh. It hasn't been established whether or not the DM was truly the buddy of the lost diver or if some physiological or mechanical issue contributed to the diver's death. Even if there were hard evidence that it was the diver's lack of training or poor decision making that led to his death, it still seems inappropriate.