Diver Dead in South Florida

[RogueClimber]

Weight belts make awesome tourniquets. I've yet so see a dive boat without one.

Most weight belts are far too stiff to be used as a TQ

Here is a quick find, but there are many more references

Wanna bleed to death? Use your belt as a tourniquet! - MyMedic

"I recently read an article on a preparedness website describing how to modify a belt to be a better tourniquet to stop severe bleeding. While I respect the author’s ingenuity, simply wrapping a belt around a limb, no matter how tightly it is buckled, will not likely occlude arterial bleeding. It may slow some capillary or venous bleeding, but due to the stiff nature of most belts, it can’t be tightened enough to compress the arteries (which lie deeper inside the extremity than the veins)."

 

[uwxplorer]

Sometimes backing up a boat (safely) is the only practical option...
Down here in SoCal, one of the best dives is oil rigs. Boats (which need the rig's prior authorization to dive it) are not going under them obviously, and divers are instructed to not scatter around due to random incoming and outgoing work boat traffic (rare, but they are not looking out for divers), so divers stay within the structure [some may remember the consequences of not following these instructions, others can google Dan Carlock].
The procedure used by all boats I have used for these dives is to back up towards the rig, kill the prop and wait at a distance (maybe 10-20 yards?), wave at the divers to swim to the boat in bunches (they want to make sure that if the boat drifts too close from the rig, they can pick up the last diver on the swim step and get away from the structure without having to worry about divers in the water).
Dropping the divers occurs in the opposite way (and by bunches as well).
Now all this works because the briefing is clear about two things:
- divers swim to the rig and stay within it at all times
- divers swim to the boat only when told so

Sometimes divers mistakes (often involuntary) are made. My very first dive on the rig (as a novice diver), my buddy and I descended right at the edge of the rig and due to poor viz, lost track of it. At 60 feet, we decided to give up and surface. We were slightly outside the rig. The boat picked us up and when I asked whether we could be dropped off for a second try, the captain was pretty clear that was not an option.
In retrospect, I am grateful he let us go on the next dive.

As far as the tek diver pick up strategy I mentioned before is concerned, my recollection is that the props were killed far from the shot, and in retrospect, it is probably easier for the captain to keep an eye on the divers this way that try to swing by them and stop early enough to be within swimmable distance. But I have not much experience driving a boat. Definitely something I will chat about with the captain next time!

It might well be that the current accident was a conjunction of tough sea conditions, diver stress, miscommunication, captain unfamiliar with boat handling, etc. where none of these circumstances by itself would have resulted in an accident normally, but where all the Swiss cheese holes aligned and ended up with this tragedy... If so, it could have been prevented right at the dock. In fact, right on Facebook, if I read correctly.

 

[EFX]

Most people call practices that they don't understand or know how to do "unsafe".

Admittedly, there are some people who will go ahead with a job or procedure knowing that it is unsafe. If it's a habit we can call them reckless. If they do it once in a while to save money, time, embarrasment or some other ulterior motive, oh well, we can call them gamblers. Hopefully, they won't use you as their chips.

In my 40 year career in the steel industry I worked part of that career as an electrical maintenance supervisor. In my experience I found the opposite to be true. Most of the hourly employees I supervised who did not understand or know exactly how to do the job did it anyway and consider it safe. If they didn't think the job was safe they wouldn't do it. This plowing ahead with insufficient knowledge became a recipe for accidents. This is why the steel industry and industry in general spends a lot of time writing SJP's (safe job procedures) and instructs employees using those procedures.

I've been in high current situations where trying to catch the boat resulted in my student having a meltdown. THAT was unsafe and could have been avoided with a bit of backing up. With the ladders down, you had something easy to grab onto, should he overshoot.

Let me see if I understand you correctly. A student of yours in close proximity to you floating on the surface with little risk of drowning, is more unsafe than a boat backing up into you under power bit by bit. Uh-huh. OK.

 

[The Chairman]

Let me see if I understand you correctly. A student of yours in close proximity to you floating on the surface with little risk of drowning, is more unsafe than a boat backing up into you under power bit by bit is safer. Uh-huh. OK.

Really? That's what you got? I learned to never continue a discussion with someone going out of their way to misrepresent you. You don't want to discuss: you just want to 'win". That's just stupid.

For everyone else, lest you take him seriously. I've never had to rescue any of my students. I've rescued plenty of others, but none of my own. I won't take them out of the pool until I feel they are ready.

On this particular day, I had my largest class ever: 7. I don't like big classes, but this was a church group and probably the tenth class I had ever taught. We had done all the pool work, completed dives 1, 2 and 3 in a lake and spring and now it was time to bring them to the big blue. She had never shown any hesitation, even when descending into black water in that lake. So imagine my surprise when she freaked out on the surface just before we descended. The boat would only get so close, and it wasn't close enough. No, they didn't have a tag line, or else they didn't use it. The wind was blowing the boat away from us faster than we could swim to it. By myself, I could have reached it fine, but not while towing this freaked out student. On the third attempt I got her to the boat, and then they let her fall back into the water. On the second try after that I got her back to the boat, and then kept my hand on her tank until she got ALL THE WAY on the boat. I was exhausted enough I threw up a bit. She opted out of diving from that point on.

At the dock, this boat had to negotiate between a large piling and a very nice ICE boat. It should be no problem as there was lots of room. The captain got into position and promptly backed into the piling. Everyone went flying and the freaked out student's son was even thrown off the boat where he lacerated his hands on barnacles. I never used that op again and when I found out that this was his first solo captain gig, I just shook my head in disbelief. No, I wouldn't trust that guy backing up, and I voted with my fins and went elsewhere.

 

[Wookie]

I’ve done 50,000 live boat pickups with a 100 foot boat. I have never pointed the spinny bits at flesh and blood and never would.

 

[OceanEyes]

I’ve done 50,000 live boat pickups with a 100 foot boat. I have never pointed the spinny bits at flesh and blood and never would.

Alas, not all commercial dive boat drivers are well seasoned, knowledgeable mariners.

 

[johndiver999]

Talk about a non sequitur. Most people call practices that they don't understand or know how to do "unsafe". It's a typical knee jerk reaction to the unknown. I've been in high current situations where trying to catch the boat resulted in my student having a meltdown. THAT was unsafe and could have been avoided with a bit of backing up. With the ladders down, you had something easy to grab onto, should he overshoot.

I just did.

And yet, we have dead children. You'll find a large number of auto accidents are from backing up, but you don't think it's unsafe?

What a loaded question. You're going from the OP saying "apparently" to saying that this IS what happened.

Backing up is fine, if done safely. There should be sufficient lookouts to cover the captain's blind areas.

Backing into people with the props spinning, is definitely a "no-no". I wouldn't call that safe at all. However, we may never know where the lady was while he was backing up or IF he was backing up.

Karma is often mean. Circumventing rules can be very distracting because a part of you is always looking for "The Man" to appear. Caca can occur while you're distracted, even just a bit. This was big caca.

Why? You weren't there. You've arrived at a conclusion, not knowing any facts, much less all the facts. You've assumed he did this because the OP used the word "apparently". I try to keep an open mind because I can learn a lot more. Once I assume anything, I make an ass out of "u" and me.

You're probably right!

This is true of all of ScubaBoard. It's one thing to assign blame, but a darn site more beneficial to learn how to not become a victim. Here are some take-aways...

Never ascend under a live boat.

• The captain can't see you and you have no idea if/when the props will start moving.
  • If you can't see the captain, then he can't see you!
• Even if people are present at the stern
  • You can ascend under or behind them
• High seas complicate this further

Never move towards a boat that is moving towards you

• Save your energy for when it stops
• Captains are judging how the boat is vectoring towards you and can not factor in your movements as well

You can't outswim a boat!

• Port, starboard and down are the only directions you should consider!

If you are on a live boat, pop a sausage during your safety stop!!!

• Captain may not be able to see you at that depth
• The captain is less likely to leave a sausage behind
  
• The captain is less likely to back over a sausage than a submerged diver
  
• Incredibly important in high seas
• Incredibly important in high traffic areas (like Coz)
• One sausage per buddy team/group is fine as long as you ascend together

Monitor all boat traffic during your safety stop.

• I go vertical during my stops
• I spin slowly during my five minutes of solitude and platitudes
  
• I listen, listen, listen.
  • You'll hear an approaching boat way before you see it
  • Learn to judge the doppler effect
    • Speed
    • Vector of approach/departure
• I do at least two full turns as I ascend slowly after my stop is over, looking intently to find any boat, but especially my boat
  • I'm prepared to exhale, go duck and swim downward like my life depends on it
  • It just might!

I think these are all excellent points. Perhaps the Coast Guard will consider that any time a captain kills a diver/swimmer with the props of the boat, that it was 100% the operator's fault. I really don't know the answer to that question.

What is more important, is for divers to understand the proper protocol to use when drift diving. ALL the things mentioned above will decrease the divers chance to get chopped up.

However, divers really need to understand that they need to be vigilant and do everything they can to stay away from the props. If a diver ascends into a boat and has no marker, how exactly is the captain to be aware of this situation or avoid a disaster?

One important thing that I could add to the Chairman's excellent "survival tips" is as follows:

While drift diving. Never, ever ascend on an angle on your final ascent.

If you do this, you will be ascending away from your bubble stream and it makes it much harder for the captain to detect your position. In fact, your bubbles will hit the surface at a different location from where the captain expects you to arrive, so it can serve to actually deceive the capt, from knowing where you are.

Of course, it is best to ascend directly under a surface float, but often buddies get separated and a boat is stopped and a diver thinks they can swim laterally over to the boat from their safety stop. They may wrongly assume the captain sees them, but it is much easier for the diver to see and hear a boat versus the captain seeing a submerged diver who is hanging, relaxed at 10 feet, especially when the sea state and lighting are not optimal.

So always come up under your bubbles! It is a simple thing to do and it might save your life. It gives the captain one extra clue that you are there.

For myself, I often will press the purge for a few moments just before I being the final ascent from 10 or 15 feet. A huge blast of bubbles is often very visible from the surface, and I have always thought it to be a good practice - unless you are super low on air.

So have a float, look around, control your buoyancy and use your bubble stream to your benefit - not to your detriment.

I have no knowledge of the current accident, nor do I know the people involved.

 

[pauldw]

For that scenario the recommend route would probably be a packable hemostatic agent and a pressure dressing. IIRC there is a specific pressure dressing for that scenario with the elastic being long enough to go from hip to shoulder.

Of course wound packing is likely to be very painful for the patient particularly in a pre-hospital setting without painkillers, but it is probably better than being dead.

Long ago when I was a young EMT, one of my earliest runs was to someone whose leg had been sliced up by a propeller. It made an impression on me I will not forget. Nothing else, except for fatal injuries that literally tore bodies to pieces, ever involved that amount of damage. I doubt many boats have enough medical supplies to deal with that kind of injury. Better to avoid it.

Backing a boat up into a diver and shredding them? Wow. I just can't see an excuse for that.

 

[Leighen]

One important thing that I could add to the Chairman's excellent "survival tips" is as follows:

While drift diving. Never, ever ascend on an angle on your final ascent..

My personal favorite is Never, ever surface without an SMB over your head following a free ascent. I mean, seriously.. any diver doing a drift should deploy an SMB at depth. It's not rocket science, it requires about $50 worth of gear, and makes it easier and safer for everyone.

 

[Dsix36]

I’ve done 50,000 live boat pickups with a 100 foot boat. I have never pointed the spinny bits at flesh and blood and never would.

I can tell you that is was a little nerve wracking the first time on your boat. Watching that huge vessel coming straight at me, or at least it seemed that way in my mind, had me prepped for an emergency descent. I was pleasantly relieved to have the starboard side hull slowly pass by just a couple of feet from me. Stellar boatmanship every single time. Damn I miss diving with you and Melanie.