Diver Dead in South Florida

[rjack321]

Talk about a non sequitur. Most people call practices that they don't understand or know how to do "unsafe". It's a typical knee jerk reaction to the unknown. I've been in high current situations where trying to catch the boat resulted in my student having a meltdown. THAT was unsafe and could have been avoided with a bit of backing up. With the ladders down, you had something easy to grab onto, should he overshoot.

I just did.

And yet, we have dead children. You'll find a large number of auto accidents are from backing up, but you don't think it's unsafe?

What a loaded question. You're going from the OP saying "apparently" to saying that this IS what happened.

Backing up is fine, if done safely. There should be sufficient lookouts to cover the captain's blind areas.

Backing into people with the props spinning, is definitely a "no-no". I wouldn't call that safe at all. However, we may never know where the lady was while he was backing up or IF he was backing up.

Karma is often mean. Circumventing rules can be very distracting because a part of you is always looking for "The Man" to appear. Caca can occur while you're distracted, even just a bit. This was big caca.

Why? You weren't there. You've arrived at a conclusion, not knowing any facts, much less all the facts. You've assumed he did this because the OP used the word "apparently". I try to keep an open mind because I can learn a lot more. Once I assume anything, I make an ass out of "u" and me.

You're probably right!

This is true of all of ScubaBoard. It's one thing to assign blame, but a darn site more beneficial to learn how to not become a victim. Here are some take-aways...

Never ascend under a live boat.

• The captain can't see you and you have no idea if/when the props will start moving.
• Even if people are present at the stern
  • You can ascend under or behind them
• High seas complicate this further

Never move towards a boat that is moving towards you

• Save your energy for when it stops
• Captains are already judging how the boat is vectoring towards you and can not factor in your movements as well

You can't outswim a boat!

• Port, starboard and down are the only directions you should consider!

If you are on a live boat, pop a sausage during your safety stop!!!

• Captain may not be able to see you at that depth
• The captain is less likely to leave a sausage behind
  
• The captain is less likely to back over a sausage than a submerged diver
  
• Incredibly important in high seas
• Incredibly important in high traffic areas (like Coz)
• One sausage per buddy team/group is fine as long as you ascend together

Monitor all boat traffic during your safety stop.

• I go vertical during my stops
• I spin slowly during my five minutes of solitude and platitudes
  
• I listen, listen, listen.
  • You'll hear an approaching boat way before you see it
  • Learn to judge the doppler effect
    • Speed
    • Vector of approach/departure
  • I do at least two full turns as I ascend slowly after my stop is over, looking intently to find any boat, but especially my boat
    • I'm prepared to exhale, go duck and swim downward like my life depends on it
    • It just might!

While these are all good from a self preservation perspective ultimately it is the captain's responsibility to not hit divers in the water no matter what some "boneheaded" diver might do. If a diver dies due to a prop strike your business is done, USCG is going to take your license and your insurance is going to get cancelled as well.

The best way to avoid prop strikes is not with a prop guard. They severely impact fuel, power, maneuverability and can't be practically installed on most inboards anyway. The best most universal way is to not have the engine on when divers are nearby and if it has to be running then keep the transmission disengaged and to use other techniques to get the divers to the boat or the boat to the divers. If you are on a charter that has "backed down" to pick you up, I would highly recommend never using them again as this accident illustrates how bad that can be.

 

[Manatee Diver]

So the information I am seeing. During recovery of divers the lady was injured by the props, she was alive for a brief period after recovery. They then rushed back to the inlet. The remaining two divers of the six pack surfaced to find no dive boat. They flagged down a passing boat who radioed someone after which the dive boat who returned to pick them up.

That is what I can confirm, and I added it to the first post.

A couple of observations. They report an amputation of the leg, tourniquets are the only effective means for deal with that. Dive boats should really have this in their kit and be trained on them. There are reports that CPR was done on the victim, I don't have my TCCC handbook in front of me but I remember that CPR isn't normally done on trauma victims.

 

[The Chairman]

While these are all good from a self preservation perspective

Go figure. I would rather be unhurt than "dead right". Everyone has a mandate to not do harm, and especially the captain. But, I won't blame captains for negligent divers. We have a duty to our own safety. It's a sacred trust that I keep with myself to mitigate any possible harm. My survivors may want to pursue other venues of relief after I die, but while I'm alive, my safety is my most important task. Just because a dive master wants me to jump in doesn't mean I have to. I reserve the right to not dive if I feel endangered, or even if it doesn't seem to be fun. I can and will call a dive at any time, for any reason I see fit. No one else has a say in that: just me, myself and I.

 

[rjack321]

How would that work exactly? Once the boat is moving backwards towards the divers, it's not going to stop on it's own. I mean it will, eventually but for all practical purposes, forward power must be applied at some point.

This is exactly why backing down towards divers directly aft is not good seamanship. A good skipper is always thinking "if the worst happened at this exact moment what would be the consequences?"

A big tag line with a buoy is a live boating alternative when the seas or winds are up a bit and its hard for divers to just swim to the ladder (because the boat wants to drift faster than the divers can swim). Boat pulls up alongside and just past the divers to port or starboard. The boat with tag line then drifts with the wind down onto the divers who then use the tag line to pull themselves to the ladder.

 

[PoolsOpen]

.... They report an amputation of the leg, tourniquets are the only effective means for deal with that. Dive boats should really have this in their kit and be trained on them. There are reports that CPR was done on the victim, I don't have my TCCC handbook in front of me but I remember that CPR isn't normally done on trauma victims.

First off I'm very sorry to hear about this and my sincere condolences to family and friends.

@Manatee Diver :
Good points. Something to consider is that the amputation / injury might be right on the hip / pelvic area and sometimes these injuries are jagged. If this is the case its sometimes impossible to properly apply a tourniquet.

Traumatic CPR is not recommended due to poor outcomes. But just ask the other 1st responders / medical people here, CPR always has a poor percentage of positive outcome.
If I were on the boat I could not just look at her husband without at least trying CPR..

 

[The Chairman]

One sausage per buddy team/group is fine as long as you ascend together

That doesn't account for inadvertant buddy separation.

AS LONG AS covers it nicely. If you get separated, you certainly aren't ascending together, now are you?

Lest this should be misconstrued, every diver should have a sausage, a reel and the skills to use them. On a live boat, you should be either on a flag, or on a sausage. Popping a sausage has saved me twice so far.

How would that work exactly? Once the boat is moving backwards towards the divers, it's not going to stop on it's own. I mean it will, eventually but for all practical purposes, forward power must be applied at some point.

Water has drag. The stern has a lot more drag than the bow, which is probably why most boating is done with the bow pointing in the direction of travel. I'm not a captain, but I've seen plenty of captains perform this skill with alacrity. In fact, the guy who wouldn't back up to me? I mentioned him earlier in that this caused a student meltdown. Well, that was his first time ever captaining a boat solo. Had I known that, I wouldn't have taken students on his boat. While not a captain, I have piloted a few boats, yes even commercial dive boats and have done live pickups. There are right ways to do this and wrong ways. No, I'm no expert, but I certainly can spot them.

The best most universal way is to not have the engine on in when divers are nearby

Nah, the best way is simply to stick to cave diving where scooters are banned. I've never seen a prop inside a such a cave.

 

[Manatee Diver]

Good points. Something to consider is that the amputation / injury might be right on the hip / pelvic area and sometimes these injuries are jagged. If this is the case its sometimes impossible to properly apply a tourniquet.

For that scenario the recommend route would probably be a packable hemostatic agent and a pressure dressing. IIRC there is a specific pressure dressing for that scenario with the elastic being long enough to go from hip to shoulder.

Of course wound packing is likely to be very painful for the patient particularly in a pre-hospital setting without painkillers, but it is probably better than being dead.

 

[The Chairman]

I've been backing into my garage since I moved to town a decade ago

Good for you Don. I do that in close quarters for the same reason.

For that scenario the recommend route would probably be a packable hemostatic agent and a pressure dressing.

Weight belts make awesome tourniquets. I've yet so see a dive boat without one.

 

[PoolsOpen]

@Manatee Diver
Yeap
With these types of traumatic injuries, patients are usually semi concious and already in great pain already..
... most of the initial procedures on trauma patients are done without anasthetics due to blood pressure issues
Procedures such as bone gun, chest tubes etc..

 

[greeniguana]

If I recall, almost every drift dive brief on charter boats I've been on have included "do not swim to boat unless instructed to".

Many don't listen to this part of brief.