Diver Dead in South Florida

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You mean practices that don't hurt people are "unsafe"?

No. I'm sure he meant unsafe practices that don't hurt people are still unsafe.

The Chairman:
I have seen hundreds of drivers back up while near people and not hit anyone. Then I know two who hit and killed their children.

This is a non-sequitur. You can't compare backing a boat up to backing a car up. The amount of control you have over a car is much greater than a boat for precise positioning. Also, a car is not subject to environmental conditions that would effect its positioning (e.g., wind, waves, currents).

The Chairman:
The few incidents don't make a singular practice 'bad'. I mean, how often have you heard of this happening? Not too often. Competent captains drive competently. I'm going to trust the vast majority of them. The ones I don't trust won't get my business.

I hope you're not saying that this one fatality does not make this practice (backing into people with the props spinning) bad! What makes a practice bad is not the number of accidents but the potential for an accident. The fact that by shear luck you can get away with a bad practice does not make it a good practice, it just makes the practitioner lucky and reckless.
 
I personally witnessed a near miss a couple years ago where I think both the diver and captain were at fault. I had surfaced with my buddy about 20’ away from a shared bouey (shark dive). The captain signaled that he would drive (back) the boat toward me. While taking a peek below, I saw another diver surfacing directly under the boat. I did my best to scream at the boat to stop. It took me a few seconds to confirm that the diver was not injured, but had actually made contact with the hull.

sh1t freaked me out.

Drift diving can be dangerous!

surfacing protocol should not be taken lightly.

regarding props...

happy to say I am just now converting my river Jon boat over to a jet drive. I often cruise the river and nearby springs. It’s very common for snorkelers to be on the loose without a flag/marker. I have had them surface right in front of my boat. And even drop under to try and swim underneath by path. I am rarely above idle speed, but glad my jet drive Is far less of a potential hazard.
 
It's bold because you are saying the captain operated the boat in an unsafe manner. At least one example was provided on this thread by the poster you directed your comment at- which resulted in a propeller strike fatality that was clearly not the fault of the captain- the two divers jumped in prematurely while the boat was reversing and at least one got sucked into the prop.

How do you know this didn't happen here? And yet here you are accusing the captain of operating a boat improperly.

Wait a minute. By your own admission the diver didn't jump into the water.

Leighen:
Dustin McCabe was backing his boat in the water to pick up divers & this young female diver he ran over her leg KILLING THIS DIVER instantly.

And this is not an improper way to operate a boat?

Leighen:
Dustin has/had a unique style of picking up divers. Rather than coming at them head on and slowing down and stopping with the transom next to them, or circling around them and coming to a slow stop, he'd swing the boat around and back up directly towards the diver, hitting the forward gear to stop the reversing which put the transom very close to the diver.
 
Liveboating is inherently dangerous, and absolutely required as a pracrice in the dive industry. This is a tragedy and the specific details of how the diver got into the props are not publicly known. Utlimately the Captain is responcible for that even if she swam headfist into the prop on purpose. The purpose of this section of the forum is not to heap judgement but to learn from tragedy. Lets learn the details of the tragedy and learn from them rather than waste everyone's time by asserting our deep knowledge and virtue signal our opinions.

FYI Prop Shrouds are used to increrase thrust and not to protect things in the water, on commercial (not charter) boats they serve the additional benefit of making it harder to get an umbilical caught in the wheel while "walking the dog."
 
I have been on a number of dive boats from Ft. Lauderdale to WPB to Jupiter drift diving. All captains backed up to divers on the surface, albeit stopping well short of the diver and coasting, to the best of my recollection as I have been there in a while.

Did this Captain do it in a manner that made it more dangerous than others or could it (partly) be blamed on new boat/surfacing diver/etc
 
Just saw an article on CBS 12 News (app). Not as much information as posted here or what seems as accurate.

Also, what is commercial FSL license
 
I personally witnessed a near miss a couple years ago where I think both the diver and captain were at fault. I had surfaced with my buddy about 20’ away from a shared bouey (shark dive). The captain signaled that he would drive (back) the boat toward me. While taking a peek below, I saw another diver surfacing directly under the boat. I did my best to scream at the boat to stop. It took me a few seconds to confirm that the diver was not injured, but had actually made contact with the hull.

sh1t freaked me out.

Drift diving can be dangerous!

surfacing protocol should not be taken lightly.

regarding props...

happy to say I am just now converting my river Jon boat over to a jet drive. I often cruise the river and nearby springs. It’s very common for snorkelers to be on the loose without a flag/marker. I have had them surface right in front of my boat. And even drop under to try and swim underneath by path. I am rarely above idle speed, but glad my jet drive Is far less of a potential hazard.

I had a near miss too once. We were at the end of drift diving, on the surface with afternoon sun behind me. While waiting for pick up, I saw the boat coming from behind my buddy, still moving fast. My reflect was to pull my buddy out of the way. As a result, I became on the line of fire (action-reaction effect). All I could do was to kick the hull of the boat with my fins. Luckily, I didn't got sucked in by the propeller. The captain excuse was that the sunlight was on his face and didn't see us floating on the water. The DM with SMB was behind me.
 
http://cw34.com/news/local/woman-ki...1bj6Mn11DV-DhgZpcbYdCi-W7cucs9Pf23s2HqJd0KY1Q

RIVIERA BEACH, Fla. (CBS12) — The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission is investigating a diving incident that left a woman from Melbourne dead.

Investigators said people on board a 48-foot commercial dive boat, called the Southern Comfort, were pulling divers from the water about a mile-and-a-half southeast of the Lake Worth Inlet on Sunday morning.

Two divers ended up getting pulled under the boat, investigators said.

One diver, 37-year-old Mollie Ghiz-Flynn, ended up getting struck by a propeller. Other divers and crew members freed her and gave her CPR on board the boat. She later died from her injuries.

Seven other divers on board were not hurt.
 
No. I'm sure he meant unsafe practices that don't hurt people are still unsafe.
Talk about a non sequitur. Most people call practices that they don't understand or know how to do "unsafe". It's a typical knee jerk reaction to the unknown. I've been in high current situations where trying to catch the boat resulted in my student having a meltdown. THAT was unsafe and could have been avoided with a bit of backing up. With the ladders down, you had something easy to grab onto, should he overshoot.
You can't compare backing a boat up to backing a car up.
I just did. :D
Also, a car is not subject to environmental conditions that would effect its positioning (e.g., wind, waves, currents).
And yet, we have dead children. You'll find a large number of auto accidents are from backing up, but you don't think it's unsafe?
I hope you're not saying that this one fatality does not make this practice (backing into people with the props spinning) bad!
What a loaded question. You're going from the OP saying "apparently" to saying that this IS what happened.

Backing up is fine, if done safely. There should be sufficient lookouts to cover the captain's blind areas.

Backing into people with the props spinning, is definitely a "no-no". I wouldn't call that safe at all. However, we may never know where the lady was while he was backing up or IF he was backing up.
Don't think for a minute that as he's sitting there in complete and utter shock and devastation comtemplating the ramifications of this horrible accident that he isn't second guessing his decision to ignore the mandate.
Karma is often mean. Circumventing rules can be very distracting because a part of you is always looking for "The Man" to appear. Caca can occur while you're distracted, even just a bit. This was big caca.
Why you‘d feel you need to call that bold is a bit beyond me
Why? You weren't there. You've arrived at a conclusion, not knowing any facts, much less all the facts. You've assumed he did this because the OP used the word "apparently". I try to keep an open mind because I can learn a lot more. Once I assume anything, I make an ass out of "u" and me.
There are way more prop accidents around the world than most people know.
You're probably right!
The purpose of this section of the forum is not to heap judgement but to learn from tragedy.
This is true of all of ScubaBoard. It's one thing to assign blame, but a darn site more beneficial to learn how to not become a victim. Here are some take-aways...

Never ascend under a live boat.
  • The captain can't see you and you have no idea if/when the props will start moving.
    • If you can't see the captain, then he can't see you!
  • Even if people are present at the stern
    • You can ascend under or behind them
  • High seas complicate this further
Never move towards a boat that is moving towards you
  • Save your energy for when it stops
  • Captains are judging how the boat is vectoring towards you and can not factor in your movements as well
You can't outswim a boat!
  • Port, starboard and down are the only directions you should consider!
If you are on a live boat, pop a sausage during your safety stop!!!
  • Captain may not be able to see you at that depth
  • The captain is less likely to leave a sausage behind
  • The captain is less likely to back over a sausage than a submerged diver
  • Incredibly important in high seas
  • Incredibly important in high traffic areas (like Coz)
  • One sausage per buddy team/group is fine as long as you ascend together
Monitor all boat traffic during your safety stop.
  • I go vertical during my stops
  • I spin slowly during my five minutes of solitude and platitudes
  • I listen, listen, listen.
    • You'll hear an approaching boat way before you see it
    • Learn to judge the doppler effect
      • Speed
      • Vector of approach/departure
  • I do at least two full turns as I ascend slowly after my stop is over, looking intently to find any boat, but especially my boat
    • I'm prepared to exhale, go duck and swim downward like my life depends on it
    • It just might!
 

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