divemaster

[Sideband]

Why do you all assume this kid will work on a boat leading divers? Maybe he will start off helping at a pool with confined water divers. Don't you think an 18 year old kid with 60 dives could do a good job helping students on their first day of class assemble their gear the correct way? Don't you think they could help people get weighted properly and assure all the gear was at the pool and in the correct sizes? Don't you think he or she could bring some knowledge and enthusiasm to the class? I sure do. They are not teaching the class, they are an assistant. Divemasters do lots of different things, they are not all out in 100 feet of water performing heroic rescues.

Why does everything have to be so overblown and dramatic here?

Julie

That's what the Teaching Assistant specialty is for. DM is a leadership certification.

Joe

 

[oceancrest67]

The PADI, SSI and other agency requirements are much to lax for dive leaders. I waited 5 years and more than 200 dives and still questioned if I was ready. Not because of a lack of confidence, quite the opposite. Also a knowledge that to be a dive leader, you had to lead dives. This could mean leading a dive (or dive trip) in virtually any environment, anywhere in the world.

I scoff at these agencies that allow someone with 50 or 75 dives - all mostly done in one environement (wherever they happen to live) and most often done as part of "continuing education." I wouldn't let them lead me anywhere. I liken it to the ridiculous idea that a college graduate should be promoted to CEO without any real world experience. For that matter, they shouldn't even be a low level manager. They should be placed in the most entry level job there is - and that is not a leadership position. Maybe they should start helping out around the shop filling tanks, but not lead divers (often new and inexperienced divers) off into the deep blue sea.

I waited 'till my seventh year and 300+ dives before becoming an Instructor. I've seen people become instructors that have never done an ocean dive. How can this be?
M O N E Y... as advancement through recreational diving is all about the money. It cost lots of it to become a dive leader and the push from SSI and PADI to become leaders is not because there is a shortage... it's because they want the M O N E Y.

Neither SSI or PADI gives a damn anymore about who gets certified and whether they should be or not... and that is the biggest problem in diving right now.

K

I would agree with you (and others on this board have said the same thing)...that PADI standards have moved into the marketing / tourism / travel / venue...and that diving is no longer for the robust and extreme but for EVERYONE. Now grandmothers can become instructors in a matter of a few months. I am sure all of us can collect a story or two on seeing an "instructor" fumble underwater with poor bouyancy and bad skills. I have seen my fair share of those that ought to find something else to do than ruin the diving experience for the experienced.

In my eleven years of diving...I am still working to fine tune my own skills (now more in the technical end), to develop my experiences and to seek out new knowledge...and I respect the process through time. Diving is NOT supposed to be some competitive collection of certifications...one notch above the rest etc. Believe me...a certification process may be the initial foot in the door...but experience through time is still the great task master.

Just because I am cavern / cave certified does not mean that I know all about cave diving...indeed, I have a great amount of respect for those that have logged many more dives in caves than I...a kind of diving that has a higher degree of danger and a higher need for physical fitness, maturity and discipline...and I STILL see divers that ought NOT to be cave diving...out of shape, diabetic, obese...and lazy. Some divers are racing through the PADI standards and are now attempting the technical end without the refinement of experience.

Just my 02.

 

[tedtim]

The link to the PAID Web site above - web site said you only needed 20 logged dived to be a DM not 60 as posted earlier.

I think SSI is 60. The PAID website said PADI is 20.

The link does not contain the entire standard. The website states that you need 20 dives to start the course. The exit requirement is 60. Still too low? Perhaps, but that also depends on the individual.

The other factor is age. The 15 year old can't be a DM until reaching at least 18.

IMHO, the problem with setting a minimum number of dives to become a DM is that people focus on the number and not on the experience required. I agree with other postings about the experience. Then again, would anyone accept a DM from a tropical area to supervise a dive in a cold water environment? On my last trip south the DM told us he had near 7000 dives, all in the same island location. A good DM for that location, but can you imagine him as a DM in a cold water environment.

A certification does not mean that an individual is ready to take on all of the challenges. We can have the same discussion about instructors as for DMs. Would an instructor who spends their whole diving life in tropical waters be suitable to teach a course in any cold water environment. They still hold an instructor certification.

So, what do you call the person who graduates at the bottom of their medical class?





Doctor. How many of you ever ask your doctor where they stood in their class and what school they went to?

 

[Wayward Son]

i have just read a post (not on scubaboard) by a youngster with 15 logged dives who wants to do his recue course then divemaster course. surely you need a lot more experience to become a divemaster? i wouldnt feel safe knowing my divemaster has so few dives. I have done over 100 dives and dont feel i can even call myself an advanced diver. what do you think?

2 things come to mind. The 1st is that if this is a problem of some sort on another board, why drag it here? specially without asking the person to take part here as well? All we're getting as a very brief view from one side of whatever is going on.

The other is that based on your post I see no reason to get grumpy about it. A kid wants to advance as a diver ("a youngster with 15 logged dives who wants to do his recue course then divemaster course") . Where's the problem with this? Hell, *I* want to take rescue for sure, and may one day want to take DM, though I have no particular itch about that right now. So what?

 

[Blackwood]

Under Da Sea in Belize--Alonzo Flota, THOUSANDS of dives...He easily does 2K dives a year, and that experience has made him able to hold down (deco stop) a very bouyant diver (my cuz) while still playing with Groupers...

WTH?

He's doing over 5 dives per day, and some are decompression dives?

I find that hard to believe.

 

[xiSkiGuy]

Why do you all assume this kid will work on a boat leading divers? Maybe he will start off helping at a pool with confined water divers. Don't you think an 18 year old kid with 60 dives could do a good job helping students on their first day of class assemble their gear the correct way? Don't you think they could help people get weighted properly and assure all the gear was at the pool and in the correct sizes? Don't you think he or she could bring some knowledge and enthusiasm to the class? I sure do. They are not teaching the class, they are an assistant. Divemasters do lots of different things, they are not all out in 100 feet of water performing heroic rescues.

Why does everything have to be so overblown and dramatic here?

Julie

I agree with you Julie. Not every DM works on a boat. Lots of DMs end up as assistants in classes. For many people getting additional certifications is just a way to improve their own skills. I got my rescue diver shortly after my OW and AOW. I don't have any delusions that my certifications replace experience. I just wanted to learn as much as I could. I've met very few divers who think someone's cert level trumps experience.

 

[Lead_carrier]

Why does everything have to be so overblown and dramatic here?

Julie

Because ALL the agencies are in it strickly for money. Back when I started diving. We had to do a thousand push ups in full gear, :sprite10: run a mile in 5 minutes with weight belt and fins on, do a 500 yard underwater swim, on one breath, in a shark tank , and then swim 2 miles. Up hill both ways. Then we were allowed to approach the instructor :director: and ask him to bestow his favor on us :god: and consider allowing us to sign up for class. Then things got tough. :wow_2:

This help any Julie? I agree with you. He could be helping around the pool, be the class gofer, or any number of things. Then he could have plenty of time to decide if he wants to go into instruction.

 

[El Orans]

WTH?

He's doing over 5 dives per day, and some are decompression dives?

I find that hard to believe.

It's probably a safety stop, not a deco stop.

 

[Santa]

i would like to shoot the divemaster instructor who certifies this kid!

Well he couldn't - at least for 60-odd dives.

 

[Santa]

Because ALL the agencies are in it strickly for money. Back when I started diving. We had to do a thousand push ups in full gear, :sprite10: run a mile in 5 minutes with weight belt and fins on, do a 500 yard underwater swim, on one breath, in a shark tank , and then swim 2 miles. Up hill both ways. Then we were allowed to approach the instructor :director: and ask him to bestow his favor on us :god: and consider allowing us to sign up for class. Then things got tough. :wow_2:



Oh we used to dreeeeam about doing 500 yard underwater swims on one breath in a shark tank and then swim 2 miles up hill both ways.

We'd have claw out way through the polar cap at a hundred metres of seawater uising only our bare hands and wearing nothing but roller skates, whilst breathing pure mustard gas from a recycled coke bottle - and that was if the instructor liked what she saw.