divemaster

[msedivingdoc]

i have just read a post (not on scubaboard) by a youngster with 15 logged dives who wants to do his recue course then divemaster course. surely you need a lot more experience to become a divemaster? i wouldnt feel safe knowing my divemaster has so few dives. I have done over 100 dives and dont feel i can even call myself an advanced diver. what do you think?

Well I work in a place where these guys go to school and get to repair your heart or replace an organ or other small stuff. Amazingly most of the patients live. I guess these people must read and study a lot and stuff like that.
Basic point experience diving helps, but if this kid can finish all the course work and comfortablly dive... sounds fine to me. If you aren't comfortable with it, book your training elsewhere. I'm sure he had several dives during his DM training.... btw I've had DM's with thousands of dives that didn't know squat and had the worst habits.

 

[SteveDiver]

Ok, I get it... Hmmmm. I will study and read a lot for three weeks to be a brain surgeon forget the years of school and internship because I am going to read and study EXTRA HARD. I will be ready to operate in four weeks. Wow! I always thought education and EXPERIENCE was important. I never knew how easy it was....

 

[minervamar]

You were qualified to perform the rescue, find the divers, what ever you want to call it, if you got the card before you had the capability to perform the duties of the DM the ending to the tale might not be so happy...

Actually I rescued the two divers before getting certified to get the DM card.

This situation had little to do with agency qualifications, more to do with fitness of rescuer in the areas of endurance, strength, and surface swimming ability,
and luck that the two drifters were seen in time for rescue.

 

[ilee1990]

Ok, so let me ask you guys this question...

When I jump on that liveaboard next June in Belize and the DMs introduce themselves...how do I know that they are experienced? Liveaboards might be a bad example. You dive on your own predominantly. OK... How about that dive shop on X island. The one with the PADI sign on the window. How do I know that the guy or gal "leading" that next dive actually has experience beyond the cert. dives?

Assuming I don't just want to take their word for it.

This has been something that I've been wondering about since I got certified.

Irene

 

[Diversauras]

Ok, so let me ask you guys this question...

When I jump on that liveaboard next June in Belize and the DMs introduce themselves...how do I know that they are experienced? Liveaboards might be a bad example. You dive on your own predominantly. OK... How about that dive shop on X island. The one with the PADI sign on the window. How do I know that the guy or gal "leading" that next dive actually has experience beyond the cert. dives?

Assuming I don't just want to take their word for it.

This has been something that I've been wondering about since I got certified.

Irene

Being an educated consumer is the way you or anyone will know about the qualifications of the service provider, the DMs and crews.

It is certainly a problem that novice divers do not yet know (typically) enough about the sport to know when they are being fed a line, but at some point the average diver is capable of evaluating the DMs and crews on the dive boats they charter.

You don't have to be able to drive a bus to know that there are some drivers better than others, and you don't have the option to actually do an evaluation, but on the dive boat or at the dive site you do. As an informed and conscience diver it is your responsibility to do this, if you don't then you, intentionally or not, subscribe to the "Trust me" dive technique.

 

[friscuba]

Ok, so let me ask you guys this question...

When I jump on that liveaboard next June in Belize and the DMs introduce themselves...how do I know that they are experienced? Liveaboards might be a bad example. You dive on your own predominantly. OK... How about that dive shop on X island. The one with the PADI sign on the window. How do I know that the guy or gal "leading" that next dive actually has experience beyond the cert. dives?

Assuming I don't just want to take their word for it.

This has been something that I've been wondering about since I got certified.

Irene

There are never any guarantees unless you ask up front. I would suspect most liveaboards will hire experienced DMs and Instructors who are, at a minimum, experienced working in the local area, although there's no guarantee they'll have ever dove any of the sites if this is their first trip out. Once you get down to the day dive boat level, it's tough to say how much experience the crew may have on any given day... I've seen plenty of people fresh off the airplane get hired here at some shops, even seen some of them start businesses.

A DM or Instructor rating is simply a lable of level of training, not experience. You are likely to run in to all levels of experience among various DMs and Instructors you meet over your dive career. Get yourself to where you can take care of yourself safety-wise and you hopefully shouldn't really need to worry about their particular levels of experience.

 

[String]

In the BSAC they require 11 check points and at least three occasions of snorkle diving in open water (hours worth, not minutes worth) before you get to try scuba in the pool

That isnt the case. While snorkel skills are taught in the first 2 lessons of the ocean diver course, no prior experience is needed and once theyve done those 2 lessons in the pool, chances are they'll never wear a snorkel again.

, and when they have a rescue class the largest guy in he club is always the victim, and everyone can rescue and land him before they pass.

Again not the case. Its not uncommon for everyone to practice on the various size people as victims but its not just a case of fail if you cant lift the biggest.

To be the equivelant of AOW they take boat handling classes

Boat handling is not part of any BSAC core diving syllabus at least at club level (although chartwork and other things are). Boat handling is done either via the BSAC diver coxwain SDC or more commonly by people going out and doing the internationally recognised RYA powerboat courses.

 

[Diversauras]

That isnt the case. While snorkel skills are taught in the first 2 lessons of the ocean diver course, no prior experience is needed and once theyve done those 2 lessons in the pool, chances are they'll never wear a snorkel again.



Again not the case. Its not uncommon for everyone to practice on the various size people as victims but its not just a case of fail if you cant lift the biggest.



Boat handling is not part of any BSAC core diving syllabus at least at club level (although chartwork and other things are). Boat handling is done either via the BSAC diver coxwain SDC or more commonly by people going out and doing the internationally recognised RYA powerboat courses.

It was 1982 when I was in the Bracknell club and that was what was done then. Guess things are changing everywhere.

 

[String]

http://www.bsac.org/technical/dtp/dtpintro.htm

Ocean Diver:

http://www.bsac.org/technical/dtp/lsocean.htm (equivalent roughly of padi AOW)

Sport Diver:

http://www.bsac.org/technical/dtp/lssports.htm (basically padi rescue but can also do decompression)

Dive Leader:

http://www.bsac.org/technical/dtp/lsleader.htm (Roughly PADI DM with Deco and charwork and oxy).

 

[AndyNZ]

There's no doubt that most of the DM cert requirements are pretty weak.... but even with wide experience, in-depth knowledge and loads of training there's no guarentee that you've got a good DM. The thing that makes a good DM is attitude.

Even though DM is a "dive leadership" cert, that doesn't meant that you accept responsibility for individual divers and individual dive plans. Someone with the right attiitude can actually make intelligent suggestions with regards how someone should plan their dive on a given day. If the DM lacks experience, then they can err on the side of caution when recommending options to a buddy team. If the buddy team feel that they have experience that justifies them diving outside of those recommendations then that's their call.

The scariest thing about the PADI DM course is that it is possible to actually get the cert with next to no contact with real divers.... "simulated training exercises" are not the same as having to deal with real divers with real problems.

Having gone through the PADI DM course (thankfully with instructors who agree that you need to get your hands dirty from day one) the only positive cert requirement is the theoretical aspect, in my opinion at least. Rather than number of dives being a requirement, it would be nice to see some practical/performance based targets - e.g. assist on 6 full O/W courses, combination of boat & shore dives, assist on specific dive activities (deep specialties, leading dives etc) and also some very subjective requirements... so do the students on the courses you work on give you good feedback? Do the divers you guide feel comfortable? Anything that captures that elusive "attitude" issue rather than puerile ticks in boxes....