Divemaster Responsibilities

[InTheDrink]

It's an unrealiable poll since it was done on a Scuba board, any scuba board, where MOST of the respondents are experienced and already know what a "DM" on a dive boat will and won't do, is responsible for and is NOT responsible for. Most of us have had a vast array of "DM" over the years that run the gamut from dizzy Calypso joksters to expert DM's that you would trust diving with any day of the year, in any dive environment.

The accurate poll would ask newly minted divers right before they make first post cert dives. Most will think the "DM" will be as attentive as the person who did their check out dives with them. Um not really.

Indeed, part of the problem in this discussion is that the profile of the average SBer is very very different than the average vacation diver. From all the shops I've spoken to, DSDs are where there money is. I guess OW certs come in a close second (but that's just a guess).

The difference between divers that learn to dive at home, go diving locally, have a regular and local buddy and your average newly minted vacation diver is almost without comparison. It's apples and oranges and there's no point putting them in the same basket - they're different fish.

Your average newly minted vacation diver will - irrespective of anyone's opinions on this board - will believe that a DM is a demi-god incapable of making any poor decisions and incapable of bringing them into harms way through poor choices, like dive sites. I'm not saying this is how it should be - I am just saying this is how it is.

 

[mrlipis]

Your average newly minted vacation diver will - irrespective of anyone's opinions on this board - will believe that a DM is a demi-god incapable of making any poor decisions and incapable of bringing them into harms way through poor choices, like dive sites. I'm not saying this is how it should be - I am just saying this is how it is.

Agreed

There are some on this thread that downright insist that a new diver is helpless and is an accident waiting to happen. I disagree with that mindset completely.

New divers aren't helpless, they are inexperienced. Why is that so hard to understand. They learned their skills in a controlled environment. They have no buoyancy skills, they have a million things going through their head, their nervous, their excited, their sucking air like no tomorrow. Yes they were taught the basic skills and for the most part that training will/should get them through to the next level but anyone who doesn't believe the role of a DM revolves around safety, needs to take a refresher course.
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[Web Monkey]

I fail to see any difference. If he was not in a teaching mode and was just leading a guided tour what difference would it have made.

I don't see any difference at all in liability between a DM and OWI, however the "Just leading a tour" thing is a real problem.

For the past 2 days or 8 weeks depending on the class, the instructor and/or DM has been 100% responsible for everything that goes on underwater with the student. Assuming everybody was doing their job, there hasn't been a moment that some professional hasn't had a set of eyes on the student.

The next day when the boat goes out, there's no obvious indicator that anything has changed. Anybody who didn't know quite a bit about the SCUBA industry would assume the same conditions applied.

Terry

 

[pilot fish]

Well said and accurate too. I have to shake my head when I hear people say, well, they were taught to be self reliant in class and not to ever,[ do they say ever, or never? ], depend on a DM when you dive. Uh, they HEARD it in class, which is something quite different from learning that point as a specific part of the curricula, like never ascend while holding your breath. Divers hear a lot of things in class and cannot be expected to remember every single word. It was NEVER a specific question on any test I took regarding diving, nor was it a particulat question on a test that anyone else I know ever had.

It's what you really learn as you travel around the world diving. Things are very different once you leave the local quarry, where you've been diving with you best friend and dive bud.

Agreed

New divers aren't helpless, they are inexperienced. Why is that so hard to understand. They learned their skills in a controlled environment. They have no buoyancy skills, they have a million things going through their head, their nervous, their excited, their sucking air like no tomorrow. Yes they were taught the basic skills and for the most part that training will/should get them through to the next level but anyone who doesn't believe the role of a DM revolves around safety, needs to take a refresher course.
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[pilot fish]

I don't see any difference at all in liability between a DM and OWI, however the "Just leading a tour" thing is a real problem.

For the past 2 days or 8 weeks depending on the class, the instructor and/or DM has been 100% responsible for everything that goes on underwater with the student. Assuming everybody was doing their job, there hasn't been a moment that some professional hasn't had a set of eyes on the student.

The next day when the boat goes out, there's no obvious indicator that anything has changed. Anybody who didn't know quite a bit about the SCUBA industry would assume the same conditions applied.
Terry

That is exactly the point I was making. You are very right, no way for them to know it will be vastly different in the post class, cold, real world of diving. Hearing a thing in class once or twice is much different than being taught it, having it hammered home and then tested on that fact.

 

[Dtaine]

Hearing a thing in class once or twice is much different than being taught it, having it hammered home and then tested on that fact.

I would definitely agree with that.

 

[Dtaine]

but anyone who doesn't believe the role of a DM revolves around safety, needs to take a refresher course.

oh for goodness sakes ....

I can tell you that certainly isn't the mindset in S. Florida and the keys, the DM's down here barely get in the water except to deal with the anchor, once you splash everything's on you and your buddy

 

[pilot fish]

I would definitely agree with that.

Yeah, it has to be drilled as a major safety point, or else it gets lost in the background. Class is excessive info input.

 

[JCAT]

Agreed
New divers aren't helpless, they are inexperienced. Why is that so hard to understand. They learned their skills in a controlled environment. They have no buoyancy skills, they have a million things going through their head, their nervous, their excited, their sucking air like no tomorrow. Yes they were taught the basic skills and for the most part that training will/should get them through to the next level but anyone who doesn't believe the role of a DM revolves around safety, needs to take a refresher course.
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I will respond fully in the A.M EDST.

cheers and goodnight.

 

[Web Monkey]

The DAN numbers don't even bear this out. As I quoted before, in DAN's 2007 report, there were 3 fatalities reported in the Cayman Islands (doesn't get specific as to which islands) which is fewer fatalities than Florida, California, British Columbia, Washington, New York and Ontario.

I'm sure DAN does the best they can with their stats, but they're not amazingly helpful. Saying there were "x" fatalities in any location doesn't mean much if you don't know how many dives there were.

The fact is, while not all Cayman operators are as concerned about safety as others (at least as described in this thread specifically with Diver's Down), the overall safety record in the Cayman Islands is amazing.

Unless a lot of OW training is really a sham (which is entirely possible), the only "safety" the dive ops really need to provide is clean air and boats that don't sink. The "DM" should stay on the boat (or better yet back at the shop). This would make the new divers a lot more conservative and "right under the boat" would be a tremendously popular dive location.

Terry