Divemaster Responsibilities

[JCAT]

Thanks, one more thing, the DAN Europe and DAN North America sites look way different, is all the data available on both?


Thanks Again
Richard

Not sure for the data on Europe, I will look when I have a chance. Just remember what I said early about passive reporting. No one is actually required to report, but it helps much.

cheers---

 

[Riger]

Sorry, I realize that my question may have come across as lazy-ass, but the two sites are so different, and i cannot login to the america site. The europe site is sadly not as good as the insurance. Don't believe me? https://www.daneurope.org


Regards
Richard

 

[mrlipis]

After looking at the link about the poll on what are the expectations of a DM and seeing as that the majority of divers seem to be accepting of personal responsibility. I'm curious to those of you who believe the DM should be relied upon by the diver to a much higher level then I thought was reasonable (not saying my opinion is right - as this thread has been an eye opening exercise for me), what expectations should a DM have of those divers that he is leading? Should the DM be able to expect that a well trained diver can monitor their gas, can organize their own buddies, have enough situational awareness that they will stay with the group? Or should the expect the worst and then be pleasantly surprised?

Let us not forget that we were dealing with a newly certified diver and I don't think we can have the same expectations for their abilities as we do with an experienced diver. I think the newly certified diver should understand his/her responsibility for self preservation but we should ALL remember the learning curve and the need for some help from fellow divers and especially a DM. I don't think it is unreasonable for a new diver to let a DM know they are new and expect a watchful eye. If the DM doesn't want to take this responsibility he should say so. "you're on your own newbie, don't count on me for anything".

DMs are specifically trained to look for divers who are looking stressed or out of their comfort zone. In my DM training there was more emphasis on relationship building than how to lead a dive.

 

[rsldonk]

try this https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/medical/report/index.asp I am not sure if you have to log in or not. I am looking through the 2007 report now. To answer the question about experience, in 2007, 52% of the diving fatalities reported had over 10 years diving experience and 26% had less than 1 year experience (p. 51). Now many of these diving fatalities were more fatalities while diving (diving was not the primary cause, but something else, like an acute MI was). I am still reading through it all, but it's very interesting.

 

[Web Monkey]

This attitude of profits over safety is what I think really has so many people bothered here. In my training, I immediately noticed a contradiction when the shop owner was telling me how safe diving is, but at the same time urging me to sign up with DAN and purchase dive insurance. If it's so safe, why would you need special insurance? Thankfully my OW instructor was honest with me (but then he is a GUE fundies instructor also) and explained things in ways that made me understand that if I do something stupid, the price can be very high.

People recommend SCUBA insurance because it's inexpensive and the cost of not having it if you need it is huge.

An entire year of DAN costs about the same as a boat dive. If you need to be evacuated and treated, you could easily spend $20,000 or more.

Terry

 

[rsldonk]

People recommend SCUBA insurance because it's inexpensive and the cost of not having it if you need it is huge.

An entire year of DAN costs about the same as a boat dive. If you need to be evacuated and treated, you could easily spend $20,000 or more.

Terry

I understand and that's why I signed up with DAN the day after I finished my OW (before then I was covered under a student policy that my LDS gets for all divers in training). My point there was that if you need special insurance for this activity, it may not be the safest thing to do.

 

[rsldonk]

Now to gt back on the topic of dive masters.... This scares the hell out of me.

From PADI:
Prerequisites

To take this course, you must be:

* 18 years old
* A PADI Advanced Open Water Diver (or qualifying certification from another training organization)
* A PADI Rescue Diver (or qualifying certification from another training organization)
* An Emergency First Response Primary and Secondary Care (or qualifying first aid and CPR training from another organization) course completion within the past 24 months.
* Have at least 20 dives to begin the course and 60 for certification
* Be fit for diving and submit a Medical Statement (PDF) signed by a physician within the last 12 months.


This is the course requirement for Divemaster. 60 dives? Are you kidding me? And they only "highly encourage" you to own your own gear? So theoretically you could become a dive master with less than 1 year experience and still using rental gear?

 

[Web Monkey]

Now to gt back on the topic of dive masters.... This scares the hell out of me.

From PADI:
Prerequisites

To take this course, you must be:

* 18 years old
* A PADI Advanced Open Water Diver (or qualifying certification from another training organization)
* A PADI Rescue Diver (or qualifying certification from another training organization)
* An Emergency First Response Primary and Secondary Care (or qualifying first aid and CPR training from another organization) course completion within the past 24 months.
* Have at least 20 dives to begin the course and 60 for certification
* Be fit for diving and submit a Medical Statement (PDF) signed by a physician within the last 12 months.


This is the course requirement for Divemaster. 60 dives? Are you kidding me? And they only "highly encourage" you to own your own gear? So theoretically you could become a dive master with less than 1 year experience and still using rental gear?

Pretty much. The class has other requirements for actual certification, but there was an operation advertising somewhere on SB that would take a person from "What does water look like?" to "DM" in 30 days.

Even scarier than that is that your DM might not actually have any sort of professional certification (or any cert at all). That really depends on if the dive op means "Dive Master" as in the "PADI certification" or "Dive Master" as in "We hired this guy to show you around" (see the "Willie" example above).

AFAIK, there is no legal requirement that the guy the operator sends out with you has any sort of certification at all. Yesterday he might have been fired because he couldn't reliably work the lid on the trash container at Burger King and today he can be "taking care" of you. I'm not saying that this is what happened here, but am using it as an example that "Just because some guy tells you what to do and leads you around doesn't mean that he's qualified or you're safe"

Terry

 

[mrlipis]

This is the course requirement for Divemaster. 60 dives? Are you kidding me? And they only "highly encourage" you to own your own gear? So theoretically you could become a dive master with less than 1 year experience and still using rental gear?

According to most on this board, the DMs responsibility is only to lead a dive and show us cool stuff, so why would this surprise you?

 

[rsldonk]

Pretty much. The class has other requirements for actual certification, but there was an operation advertising somewhere on SB that would take a person from "What does water look like?" to "DM" in 30 days.

Even scarier than that is that your DM might not actually have any sort of professional certification (or any cert at all). That really depends on if the dive op means "Dive Master" as in the "PADI certification" or "Dive Master" as in "We hired this guy to show you around" (see the "Willie" example above).

AFAIK, there is no legal requirement that the guy the operator sends out with you has any sort of certification at all. Yesterday he might have been fired because he couldn't reliably work the lid on the trash container at Burger King and today he can be "taking care" of you. I'm not saying that this is what happened here, but am using it as an example that "Just because some guy tells you what to do and leads you around doesn't mean that he's qualified or you're safe"

Terry

And top off your typical "tropical paradise" where things like "island time" exist and liability laws are all just academic and I am amazed that more people don't die every year.

This thread has certainly opened my eyes. Not going to stop me from diving of course (10 more days until Cozumel!!!)

The more I read here, the more thankful I am that I ended up with a great OW instructor and that my LDS is the type of place that it is.