Dive travel and responsibility

[TSandM]

Another thread on the board got me thinking. Here's a hypothetical situation: I'm talking with some friends after a dive, and several of us express a desire to go to Palau. I go home, do some research, come up with a dive op with good reviews, write to them, and get details on what kind of a deal they'll give us for a group of 12. I think contact the other divers, get 12 commitments, and we all split the price reduction and go to Palau.

Now we get there, and the employees of the dive op are doing something that appears inconsistent with usual safety considerations. (I've seen this -- tanks getting filled, for example, while a truck idled right outside the building housing the compressor, filling the area with diesel smoke.).

Who would YOU hold responsible for the behavior of the dive op, and how would you deal with the problem?

 

[chillyinCanada]

??

Is this a trick question?

I'd hold the dive op responsible.

Am i missing something?

 

[Brandon]

I've wondered the same thing as these cooperative dive travel deals become more popular. It seems to me that in the absence of a shop or individual acting as a paid organizer, the group needs to assume this responsibility. Yes, you informally organized the trip, but you also agreed to share the benefits and risks of doing so.

The problem itself is the dive op's responsibility - informing them of the issue and working with them to resolve it is the responsibility of any diver who notices. Ideally your most diplomatic (or in the case of the South Pacific, the most assertive) members should step up and handle it on behalf of the group.

 

[redacted]

The question is not who to hold responsible - it does not matter at that point. The question is how to immediately change their behavior or find another dive op. As they are putting your vacation in jeopardy, you may have to threaten somebody's livelihood to get results. I would start with the closest representative on the op and go from there.

 

[Edward3c]

Another thread on the board got me thinking. Here's a hypothetical situation: I'm talking with some friends after a dive, and several of us express a desire to go to Palau. I go home, do some research, come up with a dive op with good reviews, write to them, and get details on what kind of a deal they'll give us for a group of 12. I think contact the other divers, get 12 commitments, and we all split the price reduction and go to Palau.

Now we get there, and the employees of the dive op are doing something that appears inconsistent with usual safety considerations. (I've seen this -- tanks getting filled, for example, while a truck idled right outside the building housing the compressor, filling the area with diesel smoke.).

Who would YOU hold responsible for the behavior of the dive op, and how would you deal with the problem?

This applies to the UK.

Both the operator and the tour operator (the person whom organised the trip). Legislation that came into force during the 1990s pretty much killed off the independent tour operator. As customer's money, i.e. the other 11 people, must be protected by ATOL etc.

That said there are more people doing their own thing using the Internet. The problems arise when something goes wrong.

 

[Dhboner]

I would hold the dive operator responsible but human nature warns me that many people might feel that they have placed their trust in the organizer and the organizer is responsible for everyone's safety (I certainly would never feel that way but I have seen evidence that there are those who do). If, God forbid, something were to happen, my fear is that, in our litigious society (and yours is worse in the U.S. than ours here in Canada although that is changing) a lawyer might argue that, you, as the organize had a duty of care to conduct adequate due diligence to satisfy yourself, on behalf of the "group" that the operation was safe.

 

[TSandM]

I started the thread because somebody was complaining about a trip organizer, because the boat operators at the remote site were running the boats too fast. I looked up the organizer, and he runs a nonprofit virtual dive club, which organizes shore and boat dives locally, and obviously sets up some dive travel. I was quite surprised, when I saw that, at the complaints that the poster had, because to me, if I show up for a Meetup dive, I don't expect ANYBODY is responsible for me, other than me. With travel, it could get a little muddier, which is why I started the thread. But it seems like most people feel, as I do, that the problem is the dive op's, and not the trip organizer's.

 

[danvolker]

Another thread on the board got me thinking. Here's a hypothetical situation: I'm talking with some friends after a dive, and several of us express a desire to go to Palau. I go home, do some research, come up with a dive op with good reviews, write to them, and get details on what kind of a deal they'll give us for a group of 12. I think contact the other divers, get 12 commitments, and we all split the price reduction and go to Palau.

Now we get there, and the employees of the dive op are doing something that appears inconsistent with usual safety considerations. (I've seen this -- tanks getting filled, for example, while a truck idled right outside the building housing the compressor, filling the area with diesel smoke.).

Who would YOU hold responsible for the behavior of the dive op, and how would you deal with the problem?

I would wander over to where the truck is, and start shooting video with either my Canon or my phone...and then shoot some connecting shots with the tanks being filled and where their air intakes were...---so I would have all the proof ( video and audio) of what was happening....After this, I would find the manager or owner, and discuss the toxic fills.....I'd be polite, concerned, and I would request new tanks to be filled. Frankly, I'd be very worried about the tank filtration system at this point, and I am not sure that I would feel great about a new fill....

While I never traveled with one before, such an experience could lead me to travel with a CO analyzer along with my Nitrox analyzer. If it becomes a certainty that the tank air is tainted, then You or I become the BOSS in this scenario--the shop owner becomes a pee-on, you dictate what needs to happen, based on your best gut feeling of what a good solution would be.
My expectation is that the owner would fall over to support your wants, and this would be an easy and comfortable negotiation for the solution...Should they become combative, you take the video proof to the Internet, and spend a Thousand dollars or so on Facebook advertising to ensure the dive world finds out about this. And the rest of the trip is not going to involve using their tanks. Worst case for me, I'm freediving

 

[drrich2]

I don't think it's the organizer's fault, assuming he/she had no reasonable grounds to suspect unsafe practices.

Now, when we venture off into the realm of customer expectations & goodwill, especially assuming the organizer wants to maintain good standing with the large majority (if not all) of the customers (customer = group member), then not being at moral fault may not be enough to achieve that goal.

People traveling with a group probably do so because they want to travel with certain people (e.g.: the Scuba Board invasion repeaters) or want someone else to do the heavy lifting of organizing the trip (perhaps even arranging airfare) to create a ready-made 'turn key' experience. Some might expect the organizer ought to take care in selecting a reputable vendor.

I'm not saying it's a moral obligation; I'm saying it's an expectation some would have.

Even a reputable vendor booking can then suffer the kind of scenario you put forth.

What I suspect would often happen is, one of the group members sees what you describe. Instead of personally intervening, he/she comes to you, the organizer, tells you about it, and expects you to confront staff/management, intervene and 'fix' it.

Richard.

 

[JackConnick]

I think the organizer has assumed the role of doing just that - organizing and communicating with the operator and in turn the members of the group as a go-between. That doesn't make them responsible, but it does limit 20 people saying the same thing to the operator and driving them nuts. Most operators say that plainly - we will deal with one person in turn for them getting a free trip or discount for doing the work - and believe me they earn it!