Question Dive Rite O2ptima CM & Europe questions (Usage, as well as the wretched CE)

[makar0n]

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Bottom line, the CE markings are about commercial competition within the EU. The ever benevolent EU looking after standards, bless 'em.
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Curious as to whether you have read or exmined the technical requirements to pass EN14143 before making this statement. I have read it and it is apparent from reading it that the actual standards that are required for any CCR to pass EN14143 are simply there to protect us the diver by ensuring every CCR has a safe WOB performance envelope. Every single product that has a life safety system aspect to it, from airbags to airplanes have to have some third party accreditation. THis concept is not unique, e.g. there are global standards such as ISO.

Of course the world market in rebreathers is huge tiny miniscule. The cost of certification is considerable -- many 10's of thousands and takes a many months/years. Once tested it's extremely hard to make changes without needing recertification.

Somehow the rest of the world gets by without an approval process let alone the CE approval process -- even the hyper-litigious USofA.

Now nothing against a good discussion but would prefer this topic not to turn into another pro/against Brexit, pro/against EU or why everybody hates M26 valve. Neither "my sorb is bigger than yours aka Revo wars" as in the other 20+ pages rebreather topic

Standards save lives, and while certain aspects of this standard are debatable, bottom line is, it is a law. So if it does not apply to me, eg. as non-commercial, great, but if it does (and that is what i am trying to ascertain) then that is something i need to follow, regardless whether i like it or not. Last thing i need is some 200k bill for a rescue or something because insurer will say "oopsie, but you were not following standards, kthx, bye" as boring as it sounds.

 

[makar0n]

Yes.
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Ach that is the one i've posted originally and i think Cathal was just replying. That is the same one that confuses me so much as while it states commercial only, it has a note in red in Germish saying more or less "applies to recreational too"
[Anmerkung: dies stimmt nicht; die Direktive gilt auch für das sog. Recreational Diving!]

 

[JahJahwarrior]

Isn't the reason we carry bailout, so that in an emergency, we can ditch our non CE rebreathers to avoid any legal or insurance issues? In the ocean, it'll float away, especially with a carbon fiber tank. In a cave, you may have to push it into a crack or camouflage the unit, but the Choptima is definitely the easiest to abandon non CE rebreather out there.

Don't get hung up on the extend air cartridges, the Choptima works perfectly fine with regular sorb. If you want to use carts, then great. It's nice to have the flexibility, but no issues at all with sorb.

 

[lostsheep]

10) And finally, the most important question - why the heck these are called Choptima? It really bugs me

Because it sounds awesome?

Because they don’t make a SMoptima?

 

[makar0n]

Isn't the reason we carry bailout, so that in an emergency, we can ditch our non CE rebreathers to avoid any legal or insurance issues? In the ocean, it'll float away, especially with a carbon fiber tank. In a cave, you may have to push it into a crack or camouflage the unit, but the Choptima is definitely the easiest to abandon non CE rebreather out there.

Don't get hung up on the extend air cartridges, the Choptima works perfectly fine with regular sorb. If you want to use carts, then great. It's nice to have the flexibility, but no issues at all with sorb.

Bailout definition i need to remember
Well cartrige wise more curious, they do seem to have a few benefits but indeed sorb might be both cheaper and easily available (ie especially when traveling somewhere exotic) Well first i need to get the breather anyways.

Because it sounds awesome?

Because they don’t make a SMoptima?

Still sounds like somebody got their hands chopped off to me. And SM? Hmm that brings other associations

 

[makar0n]

As a means of update, in case somebody is also looking for similar answers:

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2) How do you service it? Or you send it back to US or is it done in EU?
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Unfortunately Dive Rite has confirmed, service can only be done in Florida, and they do not recommend doing it on my own. So sadly one would have to ship the unit back to US once a year. That means shipping cost, as well as "skipping" customs might not be an option...since sooner or later you will be caught

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5) Did you find any issues with insurance when diving non-CE certified rebreather? I have emailed DAN Europe, for some clarification on their "any kind of diving", but still awaiting a reply. And CE regulation is a bit unclear to me, some say it only applies to any commercial use, some that it also applies to recereational one.
For example this document states recreational usage of non-CE rebreather is also illegal:
http://swiss-cave-diving.ch/PDF-dateien/CE-Mark_Rebreather.pdf
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I have now received an answer from DAN Europe in regards to the insurance - TLDR: non-CE is covered for personal use only, provided it is not modified, and was certified elsewhere* (Sports Silver and up policies, Bronze does not cover rebreathers).

"As long as the equipment is certified in first world countries, when it comes to personal use only, the equipment does not need to be certified with CE.
Although there are no specific exclusions in the policy for personal use of non-certified equipment, any accident caused by the function or malfunction of the non certified (as in "first world countries", further confirmed - makar0n) or modified rebreather is not covered."

 

[Wibble]

Once a year for servicing?

And that age old insurance question: what constitutes a modification?

 

[makar0n]

Well modification i am less worried about. I might clear it with DAN but guess adding a QC hose or changing pull dump would still be fine i guess, as long as no modding of any internals etc, anything that would actually affect functionality per se. Kinda like with regs, modifying how internals of 1st stage work is one thing, but changing a hose from rubber to miflex is not an issue

Yeah, once a year servicing. So unless i happen to fly every year to US, then shipping it is.

 

[Wibble]

Hands up those who service their regulators every year... Can't see many hands.

Most service them when needed; probably all that's needed with the Choptima.

(Revos need to be serviced every 5 years -- potential lung replacements)

 

[makar0n]

Hands up those who service their regulators every year... Can't see many hands.

Most service them when needed; probably all that's needed with the Choptima.

(Revos need to be serviced every 5 years -- potential lung replacements)

Well, yeah that is a valid question. But till i get some more experience/proficiency with the unit, i might aim to be a good boy and do things by the book especially that (at least according to the GUI rebreather comparison), service fee for Choptima seems pretty low, around 125 USD (though Dive Rite seems a bit silent on that one....). Just that pesky shipping remains.