Dive Rite Nomad Ray

[lostsheep]

Relax , no one is calling you names. I’m saying your argument is weak.

I don’t care what terms you use, claiming they are the same is silly.

 

[berndo]

Yea they are all clones. Razor and armadillo were out first. Both were different than the typical sm bc’s of that era. The stealth is just xdeeps interpretation of that style of sm rig. The k2 is a clome as well. It’s generally acknowledged at least here in florida where we have a long history of sm that the razor/armadillo/stealth all are very similar in design and therefore are referred to as clones of each other. That doesnt mean they all look alike and have the same features. But at the end of the day they all share similar dna.

You're kinda using the term 'clone' in a weird way. The Apeks rig was like a clone of the Razor and you can tell that the contour kinda ripped off Edd's SMS. You surly can see the 'improvement'/evolution and who got 'inspired' by whom.
I only ever heard people call stuff a clone when it's basically the same design. Like the KissCat/SideKick, RB80/Habanero/SF1...
IIRC the Nomad was out before the Dillo and than came the Razor w/o Wing. IMHO, the old Nomad had virtually nothing in common with the first Razor... the xdeep IMHO was a cheap-to-make Razor knock off.

It's semantics, I agree, but I've never heard anyone call the dillo and the Razor similar in design or clones.

 

[stuartv]

Not sure why you guys are getting so "in a bunch".

I agree with @rddvet.

@lostsheep: What ISN'T a xdeep/razor clone are rigs like the Hollis SMS75/100, or the Dive Rite Nomad XT, or any Toddy-style rig.

A harness that has 2 shoulder straps, a waist belt, and a crotch strap. A roughly diamond(-ish) shaped air bladder at the lower back (with bungees around to the front, to hold the bladder wrapped around the diver's body), and some bungees that come down just behind the arms to hold the front of the tanks up. An inflator coming under one arm to the front.

No hard or soft plate. Nothing in the middle of the bladder like a soft plate where you can put a single tank, if you want.

Everything after that is just minor details.

Or so it seems, to me.

 

[lostsheep]

I am bowing out of this one now and my apologies for offending

Consider my undergarments unbunched.

 

[rddvet]

Not sure why you guys are getting so "in a bunch".

I agree with @rddvet.

@lostsheep: What ISN'T a xdeep/razor clone are rigs like the Hollis SMS75/100, or the Dive Rite Nomad XT, or any Toddy-style rig.

A harness that has 2 shoulder straps, a waist belt, and a crotch strap. A roughly diamond(-ish) shaped air bladder at the lower back (with bungees around to the front, to hold the bladder wrapped around the diver's body), and some bungees that come down just behind the arms to hold the front of the tanks up. An inflator coming under one arm to the front.

No hard or soft plate. Nothing in the middle of the bladder like a soft plate where you can put a single tank, if you want.

Everything after that is just minor details.

Or so it seems, to me.

I had no issues until the bruh comment. Just came off wrong to me. Seemed like he was intentionally being a jerk. He claims he wasn't, so I'll try to ignore it.

 

[berndo]

Everything after that is just minor details.

The minor details are what make a rig good or bad. Shape of the bladder and the wing and the position of the dump valves, position of the lower attachment points, etc. make a pretty big difference.

 

[stuartv]

I handled a ray at a dive shop last weekend. It was ok. It didn’t wow me. It’s just another xdeep/armadillo/razor clone. There were some things I thought were good. Some things I didn’t see the point of. My final assessment is if I was buying a new sm harness today it’d stil, be the xdeep.

Also....

I had an Apeks WSX45. I now have a Katana 2, and the Ray. I have not had an xDeep.

What would make you choose the xDeep over the Ray?

I see you're in FL, so the Ray seems like a no-brainer - IF (IF, I say) the Ray and xDeep are more less equal. Dive Rite being right there and having (in my experience) excellent and fast customer service.

 

[stuartv]

The minor details are what make a rig good or bad. Shape of the bladder and the wing and the position of the dump valves, position of the lower attachment points, etc. make a pretty big difference.

No argument there.

But, I don't think that changes the basic assessment that SM rigs like the SMS75/100, Nomad XL, and Toddy-style rigs are all fundamentally different from a Razor/xDeep/etc..

In contrast, the Razor, xDeep, Ray, Katana 2, etc.. all seem like the same basic design. Thus, in MY mind, being reasonable to say that those are all clones of each other (versus those other rigs like the SMS75, etc.).

Just like we say so many regulators are clones of the Apeks DS4 (or whatever). Sure, they have minor detail differences, but their fundamentals are all a very similar design. Completely unlike comparing a DS4 to (for example) a ScubaPro Mk 25.

 

[berndo]

In contrast, the Razor, xDeep, Ray, Katana 2, etc.. all seem like the same basic design. Thus, in MY mind, being reasonable to say that those are all clones of each other (versus those other rigs like the SMS75, etc.).

I don't think these are clones. Kantana 2 compared to the xdeep - for example - has the lower attachent points on top of the wing... like the sms/oxycheck had. That's major differnce right there. The position of the dumps are different. The wing shape is different on the katana 2 to allow for a shoulder dump, different weight systems, etc.
They kinda look the same at first glance but couldn't be much more different form one another, I don't tink. Same goes for most of the rigs on the market.
The Katana 2 is what you would end up with if Edd's SMS100/75 and the xdeep had a baby.
You could write alot about sm rig design.
The only actual clones IMHO are the Hollis SMS100 and the Oxycheck Recon and maybe some of the off-brand Razors, like the DIR-zone Diamond or the first utd z-system sans the gas distribution block.

 

[grantctobin]

I don't think these are clones. Kantana 2 compared to the xdeep - for example - has the lower attachent points on top of the wing... like the sms/oxycheck had. That's major differnce right there. The position of the dumps are different. The wing shape is different on the katana 2 to allow for a shoulder dump, different weight systems, etc.
They kinda look the same at first glance but couldn't be much more different form one another, I don't tink. Same goes for most of the rigs on the market.
The Katana 2 is what you would end up with if Edd's SMS100/75 and the xdeep had a baby.
You could write alot about sm rig design.
The only actual clones IMHO are the Hollis SMS100 and the Oxycheck Recon and maybe some of the off-brand Razors, like the DIR-zone Diamond or the first utd z-system sans the gas distribution block.

The K2 cylinder attachment points are in the same spot as the XDeep harnesses. There is no intention to clip cylinders to the half D’s on the back of the wing cover. Agree the shoulder dump and thusly wing pattern on the K2 is different.